SW17LS

Look at the price of a less loaded F Sport in the UK. Its more than here. The vehicles are priced in each market according to the market forces in THAT MARKET, tariffs, taxes & fees, etc. You can't compare pricing from one country to the next.

We're talking about minor things, nothing that would raise the cost of the car more than perhaps, $1000? $1500?. We're talking about rain sensing wipers, ventilated seats...and memory seats, power tilt wheel. Look at what those options cost on other trim IS's or on other models. Remember...the components exist for this car because the car comes with the features in another trim and in other markets.

Every business is only in business to "make more money". Thats why we all get up and go to work in the morning. To make money. With that said, the question is whether this particular business decision will indeed make them more money...I don't think it will. I think they are sacrificing a lot of the benefit of offering a car that is truly a great drivers car FINALLY by making people decide between the sport sedan they want and the features they want. Their competitors do not make their customers make this decision.

This decision may reduce the sales success of the F Sport package if buyers abandon it to either the Luxury model to get the features, or a competitor. The net effect of that will be fewer F Sport sales which may ultimately cause Lexus to abandon this track they are on of building better cars from the enthusiast's perspective without ever knowing how successful it could be. As enthusiasts...we don't want that.

The flaw in your argument is that the features already exist, they are already being manufactured...in the same plant...just not for this market. Your argument would have a point if we were talking about features or colors unavailable on the car...they are available and are added to cars right now on the same assembly line...just not our cars. Why? Because they want to make more per unit and they don't have confidence in their ability to sell the F Sport really in the US.

Your Forbes article is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

You know...you aren't any less of a Lexus fan by admitting that they've done something that may in fact be a mistake. They've made lots of mistakes before...and they will again. They are in new territory here with these F Sport cars and without feedback they won't learn.

If they really want to get buyers away from BMW...which they do...they need to offer the whole package...not shoehorn a consumer into deciding if they want luxury or sport. The consumer wants both...

The way I see it...the 3IS is a great car. Carryover engines may have been necessary to deliver the new model on time given the hardships experienced by the manufacturer during its design cycle...but they will hurt sales. Not offering the same level of luxury features on the F Sport as on the Luxury sends the message that their focus is not really on sport. It will ultimately prove to be a mistake, undermining their credibility when it comes to delivering a real sport-luxury sedan.

Ramon

Precisely. Common sense can be elusive where objectivity doesn't exist.

1) Most if not all these options already exist
2) The cost is relatively minor, particularly because of #1
3) They are Options. If you don't want to pay more, you don't select it. A WIN for the consumer
4) They are Options. If you do want them, you pay more and get what you want. A WIN for the consumer and Lexus

I'm not sure at what point in this processes people will suddenly stop buying the car and Lexus will go out of business.

SW17LS

Not gonna happen lol

BUT, I do think they are hurting their potential success with these cars by limiting them in this way.

Glashub

SW13GS I disagree -- the Forbes article is completely relevant -- it's hard to make money off of yesterdays technology inflation and currency swings not withstanding -- let alone "make more money".

Blame the NA market -- we want dirt cheap high quality stuff and we want it to be cheaper each iteration. You can't compare EU and Japan with NA. And please stop doing it. They are a different psychology. You want debate the cost of an EU IS and an NA IS? SE on the IS are 16" wheels.

You and Ramon don't stop to read my posts and to read the articles I link to. You apparently don't give any thought to what I've written about market dynamics and my thinking as to why Lexus chose to do what it's done -- you both come on the 3IS thread with an agenda -- which some could argue is to rain on the parade of 3IS owners and to make them feel foolish for buying a car and enjoying it for what it is.

Mark my words -- it is only you and Ramon posting again and again and again (neither of whom owns the 3IS) showing up here crying about what the IS ain't.

"The vehicles are priced in each market according to the market forces in THAT MARKET, tariffs, taxes & fees, etc." -- This is what I'm saying -- Lexus has data to support that most Americans want an entry level luxury car under 50K and then made choices as to what to include at the price point based again on data.

The Forbes article is correct in pointing out that anyone can make a great car now -- look at Musk and Tesla -- they're fighting to maintain margins.

Why don't you guys just go an enjoy your cars and let the rest of us be enthusiastic about ours? Do you see 3IS owners posting on 2IS and GS forums about what those cars aren't?

SW17LS

This is ABSOLUTELY absurd LOL. I almost got banned defending the 3IS on here, to Ramon specifically. He and I got into what was almost an all out flamewar on the subject actually. I wrote multi-page tirades about people coming on here and ruining the fun of the people who were excited about the 3IS, and new owners. I railed against some kid who denounced the car after RIDING in it. Dave the admin and I went back and forth about it in PMs, about how the brand negativity hurts the forum. You were right there for all of that...how quickly we forget.

Nobody has any rationale for saying that *I* have an agenda against the 3IS.

What you have to realize is that constructive criticism is not negative. How does me suggesting that Lexus should offer more features on the F Sport make you feel foolish for enjoying the car or buying the car? Its a great car...I have said that REPEATEDLY and I have also said that if I were to buy an IS...I would buy the F Sport despite these issues.

Its just that I feel that the car should have all the luxury features available as options in the F Sport trim as it does in the Luxury trim if they really want to attract enthusiasts...as all their competitors do.

I don't comment on your articles or analyses as to why Lexus decided whatever because they are just guesses. Regardless of the reasons behind it, I think Lexus makes a mistake when they decontent these cars. I don't doubt it makes them more money, but I think thats short sighted of them. My feeling that way should not reduce your enjoyment of your car one iota...why would it?!

I'm a 3IS fan...I've posted ALL OVER the forum about it. Just because I'm a fan though doesn't mean I agree 100% with their strategy and can't recommend improvements.

Ramon

Sooo, let me get this straight... Somehow, your mind has translated my voicing my displeasure at Lexus limiting available options on the 3IS, as a way to make you feel foolish??? I'm sorry you feel like every thread in this forum should be nothing but praise and that anything short of that is somehow an attack on your happiness.

As far as having an agenda, I absolutely do have one, and it has NOTHING to do with you or any 3IS owners. My agenda is to complain about what I don't like in threads such as this one that are discussing opinions (both positive and negative) on the vehicle in hopes that the car I want will also have the options I'm looking for in future model years. I'm sorry if you are taking my approach personally. I'm letting you know, here and now, my criticism has nothing to do with you or you personal decision to buy a 3IS. I'm glad you're enjoying your vehicle. I hope I can get the same enjoyment out of it if/when it has the options I want it to have.

SimTide985

Yeah and I think the F-Sport is so competitively priced at around $48k fully loaded that even though it doesn't have as many goodies as you'll find in say, a Q50, 3-Series, Audi A4, or an ATS, I think the IS350 makes up for it in unique styling, a superior and dynamic driving experience, and Lexus quality that's immeasurable.

Like I said, the F-Sport for the IS is catering to a specific kind of driver who values the driving experience over anything else but also still likes the style and luxury of a Lexus. I'm highly confident that over time, the F-Sport will carry over a handful of those high demand, low cost amenities anyway. I think like you mentioned, so much overhead needs to be cleared for the F-Sport right now, they have to carefully limit the kinds of additional options that come as option or not at all--this also reflects the small mix of F-Sports that have the VGRS and ML right now.

jhs82

It is mostly the price of equipment packages that differ between countries.

As examples:
Adaptive cruise control and pre crash for the IS costs with today's exchange rate about 1500USD.
Exactly the same equipment for the CT200h costs about 4200USD!

Why?

Well, in competition with the IS, we have the Volvo S60. A car that has a lot of active and passive safety systems. Sweden is Volvos backyard, and Lexus are trying to steal customers from them. Therefore, they need to keep a relatively low price of the saftey packages in order to compete with one of the best selling cars in Sweden.

CT200h lacks this distinct competitive, so there might Lexus ask for much more for the package.

Glashub

My apologies to you. They are guesses that I'm statistically confident in. I own and run a digital marketing company that manages Google, Bing, display, PLA's and more for companies ranging from Zappos to Tiger Direct to Skechers. I've become intimately familiar with how companies think i.e. their ability to gather and slice and dice data and the way they will target with mathematical confidence what their data shows them people will buy and when. Lexus has access to even more data.

I'm also very familiar with how hard it is to keep margins, people employed, and share holders happy in an extremely competitive market.

Sure I'd like some extra goodies on the car but I'm the sort who would rather accept reality than keep pining for something that doesn't exist here and now in the moment.

Maybe I should start a thread and provide contact info for Lexus corporate so people who are unhappy with the 3IS can contact Lexus and tell t hem how they'd run the business instead of posting their complaints on the 3IS forum again and again..

I'm sure they'd like to hear how they could improve their iconic brand.

Or maybe those people could start posting on the Lexus FB page, https://www.facebook.com/lexus, which Lexus monitors. Affect change.

SW17LS

Lexus monitors these forums too, no question.

Glashub

Agreed but FB is better because it's open to the public -- 1,961,288 likes · 55,293 talking about this!

That's a lot of public pressure and will more surely affect change than a few malcontents preaching to a few owners.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

Toyota should listen to some of the malcontents so maybe the IS,GS and LS will have sale numbers closer to the 3 and 5 Series and C,E and S Class.

Glashub

"Maybe I should start a thread and provide contact info for Lexus corporate so people who are unhappy with the 3IS can contact Lexus and tell them how they'd run the business instead of posting their complaints on the 3IS forum again and again..

I'm sure they'd like to hear how they could improve their iconic brand.

Or maybe those people could start posting on the Lexus FB page, https://www.facebook.com/lexus, which Lexus monitors"

SW17LS

This site is not open to the public? And in any event, this is just an open discussion. We're all Lexus fans talking about the brand, discussions ebb and flow. This topic came around to this subject, not every topic does.

Regardless of how great a product is there is going to be criticism. You're going to have to be able to deal with that if you're going to enjoy posting on a forum such as this. If you don't want to read certain things, select which threads you want to read. For instance you don't seem to be happy with what some of us are saying in this thread...perhaps you should stop reading it.

Glashub

I'm unhappy some people are beating a dead horse and then shooting it. I have provided a solution -- go to FB. Yes, this is an open BUT relatively unknown forum. Most people wouldn't know to look for it and it attracts a certain type where FB attracts Mom's, Pop's, aspiring owners, etc. The pressure people like you posting your rants in front of an audience of people as described above would be more likely to affect change than posting here.

That you're even arguing this point is ludicrous and hints that you may just like to argue or you don't understand the power of SM. Go to Q50forum.org and read how they are shaking up Infiniti with their FB posts about the Q50. Most are getting private messages in a matter of hours. Who has gotten a PM from Lexus on this forum?