Ramon

It's not a bad example because you want to draw the line at a random feature like radar... Why does it have cruise control at all if it's suppose to be an ultimate drivers car? Not only does it take away from actually driving the car, but it adds weight. Why does it have an automatic transmission? Why not something more conducive to being the ultimate driver car like a dual clutch? Why does it have Mark Levenson as an option? That adds weight too. A lot more than a rain sensor I might add.

This theory has been debunked all 4 times you've brought it up.

Toys4RJill

Yes it does matter. It matters huge.

Shed as much as you can and that will improve Mpg and your handling.

I'm not sure but I believe the f sport has different seats that are "form" hugging. So that might be the reason for no cooling as well. Nulux us also lighter than leather according to Lexus.

Radar cruise, rain sense, power steering columns, rear HVAC blind stop hardware all add weight when added together. So does cooling seats. The IS also have MPG concerns to worry about as well.

jmac350

I would pay more for those options if that is what it came down to. I suspect we will see these options in the next couple of years in the U.S. and Canada. It is a nice car. No argument there. I just need more of the options I already have in my 5 year old IS350 before I can pull the trigger on a new one.

Toys4RJill

And why can't you pull the trigger on a IS with the luxury package that matches your IS now?

Ramon

Well if he's anything like me. He thinks the non f-sport front end is one of the ugliest looking front ends in Lexus history and he wants the adjustable suspension modes.

jmac350

I could, but the luxury package does not look as good as the FSport. The wheels and grill look better on the FSport than what the luxury package has. The FSport LFA dash has a look all it's own as well. Just my opinion. I have to feel good before I spend 50K and not regret, or compromise on what I want. All Lexus has to do is sprinkle just a few more little options in the Premium FSport package(I will pay more for them), and I will step up to the plate and order an Ultra White one.

SW17LS

Sorry but that just doesn't make any sense at all. Why would Lexus put that equipment on the F Sport in other markets and not here? They don't want "drivers cars" in other markets? Weight doesn't matter in other markets? Does the USB paint color make the car less of a drivers car or heavier over other colors?

Its to save cost...its business 101. If Lexus does in fact think as you do, then they need to have their heads examined. Drive an M5. Drive an M3. Drive a C63 AMG. Drive a SL63. High performance driver oriented sports cars and sports sedans have these creature comforts. Why does the ISF have this equipment? Its way more sport oriented than an IS250 F Sport and from the same manufacturer.

If it doesn't bother you, thats fine...but don't carry on the farce that Lexus has omitted this equipment to make the IS F sport a "better car". Thats just absurd. They omitted those features to be able to deliver the car at the price point and profit margin they wanted to. Plain and simple. Don't be such a fanboy...acknowledge the shortcomings of the car where they exist...the fact that the F Sport can't be optioned up to the level the competition is going to hurt it...since Lexus is trying to reinvent their image they should be coming up with ways to ENCOURAGE people to buy the F Sport over the Luxury, not giving them reasons not to. I think its a mistake...and yes...Lexus does make mistakes.

The car should have available leather, power tilt wheel, ventilated seats, folding mirrors/power trunk, rain sensing wipers, foglights. Bottom line...its a luxury car. If those features are important to you, you have to buy something else. Lexus is pulling their punches with the F Sport here, they are minimizing color options, package options, and limiting features to keep the pricing and costs down/ Same with the 4GS. Thats why there is no 3ISF. No GSF. They don't really believe they are ready to put themselves out there so strongly in the F line yet. Maybe they aren't...but IMHO if they aren't willing to really give the consumer what they want...I can understand why a consumer like Ramon may not be willing to write them a check for $50k for what to him is an incomplete effort.

Its a great car, and a huge improvement over the previous car...but it could be an even better car.

RA040224

"Of course" its about saving cost and product diversity. The base models of the IS and GS is only $12k apart in the US. Here in Norway, the base GS is more than double than the base IS. So we get more options then you, as a fully loaded IS F-Sport is no where near the same price as a base GS. A fully loaded US IS 350 F-Sport is more expensive than a base GS, and the models will be in direct competition with each other. So in US, if you want all the luxury, the dealer can say, "Take a look at this nice GS! It has everything you want, and isn't that much more expensive!" He can't do the same in Norway.

SW17LS

Yep, this is the reason.

BUT, this is a confidence thing. A loaded 3 series eclipses a base 5. They have to have confidence that people will want the IS for its benefits over the GS like BMW is. They don't really have that confidence in their F Sport cars. If they are really attracting the enthusiast an enthusiast should want a loaded IS350 F Sport over a base GS350. I don't think they feel they truly can do that, which means they've already lost.

jmac350

I agree. I think it's a mistake as well. I want to feel the need to get the FSport, but I am not there yet. The car should have all the options I already have on my 2008 IS350. Too much money to compromise. I agree with your take on Lexus and I hope they are hearing the message and will change their mind set sooner than later. If they do, then I will be on board and will step up.

SW17LS

If I were going to buy the IS, I would get the F Sport despite the lack of these features. To me this car really is at its best in the F Sport...I do not feel that way about the GS F Sport.

BUT...I am not a consumer who is just coming to a luxury brand and am used to having these features, so features on a car like the IS wouldn't be that big an issue to me. If it were my first luxury purchase, which they want it to be for a lot of people...I think I would feel differently. I can get all of that on an M-Sport 3 Series...

jmac350

If this was my first luxury car, or first Lexus, I would have probably ordered an FSport with the premium package already. But it isn't. I have one, so I know what it is like to have these missing options. I think Lexus will get there and will offer these options we have discussed, but it just won't be this year and because of that, I will wait until next September when the 2015 starts to be offered and see what they have added to it. To each their own, but for me, a 50k luxury sport sedan should have all the options the previous generation had but as of right now, this one doesn't. So Lexus will have to wait a year(or two?) before I order mine. My car is the third year of the second generation and it has all the options you have mentioned, except for navigation. So maybe it's a 2016......going to start counting down the days LOL

porsche986

I made a thread that echoes a lot of the sentiments that I believe Lexus skimped, putting the buyer in a precarious position. Had the F-Sport at least provided the option of leather, the loss of other options could be overlooked. The fact that Lexus marketing has to provide a silly justification with a straight face that they did it to "save weight" just adds insult to injury. As many people have said here, they did it to meet a price point, and in the end I think it's a poor decision. If they are justifying their reasoning to not include such luxuries so they don't cannibalize sales of the GS, then that's even a worse decision. The luxury sport sedan segment is the most competitive of all, with many excellent choices. I think the lack of these features on the F-sport could drive many customers away to Lexus' competitors. There is a reason BMW is at the top of this segment year in and year out -- it's because they understand their customer. It's more than just being a great driver's car.

LEX430SC

iTrader: (1)

^^^^^^^Good point

jmac350

You are bang on. Agree 100%