Glashub

Saw an IS with fog lamps. I think they look puny and out of place with that grill. Little fish eye sort of things. They need to update the design to go with the grill.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Right ES is horrid

Comparable sure, but I'd rather it be class leading - especially with the price advantage, lots of room to improve the "lost luxury" of this new generation. Even if the price went up, its still lower than equivelant German models

The features are there, but having your cake is not the same as eating it. Lexus decision for you either get Sport or Not is terrible. It's really a shame that the masses are sheep and continue to accept what some automakers pedal to them. We should be dictating what we want not the other way around

Glashub

Cool. Good idea! Help us to understand your plan for doing that and once laid out -- provide a place where we can sign up and take our power back from the auto manufacturers! Hey! Wait a minute! Don't you work for Lexus or something? Why, you're the perfect leader to organize all of the sheep and create a mass "power to the sheep" movement. Why you could march right up to those Lexus reps and let them know that the sheep are mad as hell and aren't going to take it anymore.

Oh, and when exactly did we ever have that power to dictate to auto manufacturers? Was it right about the time of the Ford Taurus? Before? After?

Glashub

Do you mean something like this sheep protest -- (but with a Lexus or 2 parked in the background)?

IS350S2K

Lexus isn't forcing anyone to buy their cars. If they don't offer something you want, don't buy it. That would send a message to Lexus. And sheep can't afford Lexus.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Sarcasm aside - why yes I do have a "hook" so to speak on the Lexus Product Council - politics are always a b**** though

believe it, don't believe it, I don't care. If you're happy with rough grainy plastic in your $50,000 "Luxury" badged car then more power too you.

Yes, instead of sheep baa-ing it'll be Lexus "chirping"

They are forcing buyers to choose between two different themes. As a luxury make, you should be able to afford and attain it all in one

You're right, sheep are buying Toyota and Chevy in droves

SW17LS

I agree 100%

We're the consumer. The whole point is to convince us to buy the product. If your argument is the consumer's wants and needs don't enter into the equation when the manufacturer is designing and packaging a product...I don't know what to tell you.

The Taurus is a great example. Look how quickly the Taurus was refreshed away from that ovular style. Thats why we got this:



Not great, but better.

The consumer decried the low quality of Toyota interiors and market share of the Camry slipped. So...Toyota improved the interior materials after only 1 year.

He hasn't bought it.

You miss the point. We're all Lexus enthusiasts, we want Lexus to provide a great product and succeed. As enthusiasts when we see our brand making decisions we think are wrong...it frustrates us.

IS350S2K

Lexus does make a great product. That's why some people are buying them, including myself. The lack of options doesn't seem to curtail current sales. As the newness disappears and competition increases, I'm sure Lexus will figure out what to add next perhaps adding more standard options. In the meantime, if the current configurations don't suit some people, they have a choice. They can complain, and if enough people do (and do not buy the car), Lexus will probably listen. However, if someone buys the F-sport and complains that it should have leather or flip down side mirrors, I would have no sympathy for them.

SW17LS

They make a great product, no question. But...they are never going to know how successful it might have been, or how many more people might have chosen the F Sport if they did not have to trade away all those basic luxury features in order to get the F Sport.

Meaning...if their goal is really to take enthusiast customers away from BMW, or keep them from going to BMW in the first place, they have left one very real reason right there for a customer to move to BMW from Lexus...the availability of basic luxury features alongside the sport package. It sends a message, Sport is still a secondary concern for Lexus.

Glashub

Do any of you shop high fashion? Armani, Klein, Prada? If so, then you would see that for years there has been a downturn in the quality of the leather, etc. In fact, leather is passé . Most coats and purses are made from NuLuxe.

The problem I have with this forum (which is the more mean spirited and unhelpful than any forum I've been on in 12 years) is that the so called enthusiasts seem to be hell bent on ruining the new car experience of people who bought the 2014 IS. It's just none stop -- the same old song. One guy works for Lexus. Yet not one of them owns the car and really intimately knows its merits from living with it. Not one. Not ramone, Not vbx, not Hoovey -- none of them own the car but they make a point of jumping on every thread to call us sheep and to infer we're morons.

To turn a statement around -- Lexus will never know how much money it would've lost if it tried to cater to the wants of people and turning a blind eye to the bottom line.

In fact I think they do know -- I've covered this time and again -- offline and digital consumer data from companies like Acxiom. They know more than the NSA and will sell the data to anyone, http://acxiom.com/

They are the people who tell companies like Lexus what people will buy and won't buy. Read up them.

Glashub

Akio Toyoda, Toyota City, Japan-based Toyota's president and chief racing enthusiast, wants Lexus to evolve from a luxury brand embraced by older baby boomers to one people in their 30s and 40s find fun to drive. Though the brand still has the strongest customer loyalty in the luxury segment, German competitors draw those younger buyers who value styling and exciting driving dynamics.

"To stay relevant the brand has to be about more than just comfort and security," said Alexander Edwards, head of San Diego-based consumer researcher Strategic Vision's auto division. "Design and performance are essential."

Lexus has the oldest average customer of the three leading luxury brands in the U.S., according to Strategic Vision, which annually surveys tens of thousands of car shoppers. The average Lexus buyer is 61, compared with 54 for Mercedes and 49 for BMW. http://www.delcotimes.com/general-ne...ise-buy-german

LexFather

I'm real sorry you feel that way but sadly you are voicing concerns of many that have said in private what they are scared to say in public.

We don't have 3IS owners going in the 2IS forum beating the car up. We have 2IS owners coming over and over in the 3IS forum beating the car up. I think the concerns have been voiced, the areas of opportunity are clear and at this point to repeat the same things over and over and over in the 3IS forum where 3IS owners are is questionable.

Its pretty clear the 3IS is a sales hit and owners love the car. I started a thread about demand for the 3IS and it turned into another argument thread.

Glashub

"Profits posted by the great automobile makers follow such a steep, descending trend that it becomes pretty obvious that their strategy for the future must change, and quickly.

During the 80s and 90s, the profit margin for the automotive industry was estimated at 18%, a level that seems unbelievable today. The gradual decrease that followed was further strengthened by the heaps of promotions, discounts and direct financing offers trumpeted by car dealers, while the recent global financial crisis acted as yet another nail in the proverbial coffin.

These days, with the exception of Porsche, who are being singled out because of the incredible results they posted – around 10-16%, all other manufacturers seem to have amassed in a weird bunch. A 6-8% profit margin is now touted as a resounding success, while less fortunate manufacturers act too embarrassed to post 2-3% margins and are left to face suspicions that their figures are actually negative.

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/be...oad-26697.html

I don't know of many companies that can stay in business long with a 6-8% margin. My clients think it's the end of the world if they go below 30% margin.

SW17LS

They aren't NuLuxe. NuLuxe is a Lexus/Toyota trademark. Plenty of genuine leather wallets, coats, purses, etc out there...I have not seen an unusual amount of faux leather goods.

Then why do you post here? As you've said to others, you have a choice.

I agree with you that there is a lot of negativity here, and it is at times frustrating. I think its terrible how threads that are positive about the car and how well its doing degrade into argument threads, almost as if they were on competing brands' forums. However, this is a topic specifically about this subject. If this were a thread about IS sales figures or performance data, you'd have a point. You don't have people going off into threads off topic and making comments about these issues. If you would stop railing against anybody who has any sort of negative feedback about the car...these discussions would die off. They keep fueling because you keep posting calling all of us names and saying we have "agendas" etc. I have not seen the people you mention lately jumping into threads and calling anybody anything (that was happening back when the car hadn't yet come out).

It ruins your enjoyment because you let it. I've said it before...if you don't want to have to read negative things about the car...don't read or post in threads with thread titles like "F Sport package not a great value considering what you give up" or "Really no leather or memory seats for the F Sport?"

Its a great car with some questionable packaging decisions, they are what they are...but your crusade to make people who find those packaging decisions frustrating somehow change their opinion to "Whatever Lexus decides is whats best, and we as consumers have no right to be heard" is contributing to the very negativity you are complaining about. You keep saying we are trying to call you stupid or whatever, when in reality you've been doing plenty of name calling yourself.

Glashub

I don't expect you to change your opinion. I do expect people to come to a place of understanding as to why Lexus did what it did. And with understanding all of the negativity should abate. Foe example, I posted quotes and a link to what Lexus is thinking and why they designed the car the way they did. I posted below it quotes and an article about the abysmal margins. It all makes sense but you don't comment on that data. You don't comment on the Axciom link I provided. I'd wager you didn't even read it. Which tells me you and others are riding an agenda.

If you or others offered as many links and data to support your position as I have -- I'd read them and allow myself to be changed -- but you don't. You offer opinions based on what you think and wish.

My posts above should make clear tat Lexus knows it's audience, it knows who it needs to attract and that they don't have the margins to stray from what their algorithms and data tell them -- down to the penny.

You've written that you own businesses -- could you survive on 6% margin on a product that sells in low volumes?