Glashub

My apologies. I get impassioned. I own the car and I have some insight as to how big brands work. I've been trying to make clear a rationale for why Lexus does what it does. I'm the only one to have offered an explanation and I've supported that explanation with links for corroborative material. Rather than consider what I've posted as reasonable or even debatable (with well researched counter arguments) -- I'm attacked as a poser.

I even suggested that people post their complaints on the Lexus FB page as a way to get traction -- but most prefer to complain here it seems. On FB their names would be attached and made public -- here they can remain anonymous.

ddb

It seems this topic is kinda of… out of topic… and kinda out of civilization and into the jungle, so lets go back on track and talk about the title on the topic says.

Main reason I think this conversation has gone wrong is simply because we all think different and we all would like different things in life. So of course, we would like to see the right options on our cars, even more when we pay big $$$ for them… but, as everything in life, nothing is perfect, so we can only try to make it as close to perfect as possible.

Then of course, comes the money factor. It doesn’t matter how much we all wish for a feature to be available on the car, if it doesn’t make sense financially for the brand (Lexus/Toyota on this case) then the option will simply not be available. Period.

But we can do something about it, that is, as long we are willing to pay more. If you wish for Lexus to offer more luxury options on the F models, then you need to go to Lexus and buy an F model loaded with as many options as possible. If many people do that, then Lexus would start looking into adding more options as it would make sense to offer more so people spend even more (more profit!).

As of right now, it is obvious by reading many forums and talking to 2IS and 3IS owners that Memory Seats (with auto roll down mirrors on reverse), Ventilated Seats, and Parking Assist should be options offered on the F Sport models. Same way, Fog Lights should be standard. This is of course, here in the US. Other countries get some of those options, while they miss others. Sometimes some countries miss a full model, like the IS300h in our case here in the US.

It is all marketing research and development. As I said, maybe if we buy F models with as many optional equipment as possible, Lexus will change their strategy for the US. Same way, giving your opinions and letting Lexus know your “wish list” for future IS models counts as well.

I got three weeks ago a 2014 IS350 F to replace my 2011 IS350. I miss the “kick” the 6-speed transmission had with its aggressive gears over the 8-speed new transmission, but I can say now that I am getting used to this new transmission to the point I can say it actually saves gas when you want, and gives you plenty of power when you want it. Is all about getting to know the car.

I like much better the overall feeling of driving the 3IS over the 2IS. You feel more like you are in control of a mean machine. While many disagree, I think the new interior design is much better and closer to what a sports car should be inside (again, my opinion).

The F front grill is unique and I can’t believe how much people keeps looking to my car every day, I feel like some kind of Hollywood star on the road… lol. I like the F front bumper much more than the regular model. I think the F grill gives the car that mean aggressive look that intimidates other drivers around. The regular grill has more of a luxury look that would be better if you are not interested on “mean looks”

Fog lights are one big disappointment for me. Other countries like UK and Japan get the Fog Lights on the F models. We don’t. Why? Simple, it saves about $1K on the price tag. Making it optional is a pain in the neck for dealers and Lexus in general, so simply, they took them out. And no, the black plastic covers on the corners are NOT air intakes. The Front Brake Air Intakes are located between the grill and those plastic covers. They have no aerodynamic functionality whatsoever. Fog Lights are not just good for fog (note that they should be yellow if you want them to work correctly on fog), but also bring extra illumination to the immediate road in front of you.

Another option that I miss is the Ventilated Seats. I live in Miami. What the heck would I want to heat up my seats?? Maybe once a year on a “cold” winter day… the rest, well, heated seats are good to keep pizza hot when taking it home… lol. Again, marketing research says that is a better deal to offer just heated seats as most of the country has cold weather while saving some $$$ on the lack of ventilation equipment (the seats are actually ready for it as they are perforated).

ML Sound System is very nice, but the system in general has many bugs as many people complains about the system rebooting and lots of delays in response time. I have had my own little problems too and I am waiting for Lexus to release an update to address those issues (is supposed to come out by the end of September).

To be honest, the only thing I think I’m planning to change on my IS is the Fog Lights. My two options are installing aftermarket LED lights on the current plastic covers, or, install the original Fog Light covers and then find matching LED lights that fit on them. I am not going to pay over $1K to import and install the OEM Fogs as I am leasing my IS, so that is not an option.

Hope this helps this topic go back into track

Ramon

I understand that... The problem with this theory is that these options are available. Just not on a particular trim (f-sport) in a particular region. So there's already an assembly line putting cars together that people here are asking for. They're just not being made available.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

i like looking at this thread title, then seeing the other thread about FSport in huge demand off the charts

vbx

The "demand" is artificial. Seeing how Lexus purposely limits the amount of F-Sports available on several states.

Whereas, in CA, there are tons of F-sports sitting on the lot. It's just a case of Lexus underestimating how the F-sport would do on certain markets.

SW17LS

I think the issue is that you perceive an attack when there is no attack. Nobody is attacking you, in fact I'm not even saying you are wrong in your reasoning why Lexus decided not to offer those options here on the IS...I'm saying that decision was wrong on Lexus' part. In fact...you've assumed I've been attacking you even when I'm agreeing with you. Plenty of people have offered explanations...and most of them mirror yours. Its just a question of whether the rationale is right or not.

You are not an expert...I am not an expert, we're all just discussing this as enthusiasts. There is absolutely no reason for the diatribe you railed off at me earlier in the thread.

Right. Note that I said I figured an IS F Sport with those options would be about $53k. Thats still $12k cheaper than a comparable 3 Series by your own math.

Yes, BMW has more brand cache. Yes, Lexus still has to present a certain value in order to be competitive. That gap is closing though, and I think Lexus is suffering from a lack of confidence in their own ability to market a car that truly is better than the German competition and to have the swagger necessary to pull that off. Note...Infiniti is not afraid, and their brand is far weaker than Lexus' brand, and their product is far weaker.

A lot of what it takes to become a "premium brand" is to act like a premium brand. If you constantly cut down your product and show that you aren't confident enough in it to provide the content the consumer wants and charge for that content...then how do you expect a consumer to have confidence that you truly are a brand worthy of being compared to the best? Lexus' actions in this area over the last few years have been uneven at best. On the one hand you sell the $400,000 LFA to show that you have the ability to create and build an incredible supercar better than anything else made purely for the purpose of rundown prestige, and then you can't put memory seats on your new critically acclaimed sport sedan because the price might come within $15,000 of the BMW competitor? Come on Lexus! Believe in yourself!

Glashub

Infiniti and Acura didn't even make the Forbes list of top 100 brands. Disappointing. Maybe Infiniti has decided to risk everything to win at the auto game. If so, my hats off to them for going all in. But IMO it won't work for them. BMW has been building a brand since 1916 and they are not owned by a low brand equity company like Nissan. I haven't seen a Q yet anywhere in LA that I've been. Pew studies show it takes 6 touches to be branded and once branded it's hard to break the psychological associations. Infiniti is perceived as a 40K car I'd bet by most people.

Still would take my IS over a loaded to the max Q50 though. Just because after owning so many cars I've narrowed it down for me -- it's all about whether I have fun driving it. Features are nice but like most tech it gets old for me.

SW17LS

Thats just the thing...it shouldn't be about sport oriented driving vs features. People want to have a great sport sedan experience...but they want at least basic luxury features too. Nobody but Lexus makes the consumer choose between the sport package and leather or memory seats. By doing that they are saying that the F Sport is the lower tier vehicle than the luxury model...which negates their entire push towards a sportier more dynamic brand.

Look at Mercedes, BMW, Cadillac, Audi, Infiniti. The sportiest package is the pinnacle of what you can buy in each model line. That speaks volumes about their intentions.If Lexus truly does want to go after a younger, more enthusiast oriented demographic they have got to have the same direction.

CtSFox

After owning many cars over many decades, I absolutely agree: the fun factor is mostly what car choice is all about for me.

vbx

Some companies obviously don't care about trends and what sells. Look at Acura for example. The 2004-2008 TL was their best selling car. In 2009, they came up with a facelift and Acura has fell off the map since.

Even after thousands of negative reviews, Acura continues to push the same ugly and boring designs. So no, they don't care what consumers think.

Glashub

I was an Acura fan for 3 generations. They really do deliver a remarkable car at a true "entry level" luxury price point. I still am impressed with the beauty of the 3g design every time I see one on the road. But rather than refine that they went with the 4g design. I bought one of those for the SH-AWD and it really was so sweet -- all for about 39K -- but it lacked a lot of the features like ventilated seats, etc.

What Acura does do -- it does well -- like the shroud over the nav and the dual displays. But it doesn't do design all that well.

Didn't they create this premium Japanese brand market? I think so and then they blew it .

dbs600

Everyone needs to take a step back and consider this:

I decided to go with the 350 over the 250 becuase I felt the 250 was a poor value. When contemplating to already spend as much as dealers wanted for the 250, I figured what's another xxx amount of dollars if I can have 100 more hp. Percentage-wise, it was not significant, even though... it was.

Therefore, the problem with Lexus not offering a package that combines the Luxury Package and and F Sport Package is that they're both already expensive propositions, where spending that much money doesn't make sense unless you have everything expected in a modern day Lexus (Luxury) vehicle, which makes them individually a poor values (F Sport even worse, as it's more cosmetic than anything else).

That said, a $50k car without memory seats, power adjusting steering wheel, auto-dimming side-view mirrors, auto dipping side-view mirrors and automatic windsheild wipers, is just not a good value, unless it's a Corvette, which an IS350 F Sport is not. Whch brings the argument full circle, leading to a conclusion that the best value in the line-up is a base IS, which crazy enough, does not have navigation (and, yes, I understand the C-Class and 3 Series does not come with same as standard either, but Lexus' should somehow just... be... different)!

dbs600

Does Leather cover more surfaces in the Luxury Package than NuLuxe covers in the F Sport Package? In other words, are there more plastic surfaces on the F Sport?

SW17LS

Not really...

The interior of the F Sport is very well done IMHO. I actually like the NuLuxe better than the non-analine leather which I think has gotten crappy from Lexus. BUT, there should be a leather option for those that want real leather.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

As opposed to base and luxury? the only difference is (other than the tach) is the matte black trim, CF trim, or wood trim pieces. And they're tiny to boot. 3IS interiors are essentially the same thing