IS will remain the entry level car...no Lexus under $30,000
12-07-13, 03:26 AM
#16
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I agree with that assessment of Lexus' standings in the US market. It should be noted a blend of F-Sport and Luxury packages (i.e, leather, ventilated F-Sport seats) are available in some other markets (notably Japan, though Toyota also sells a V12 sedan in addition to an AWD Corolla variant there, too).
They also don't sell the ES in Japan.
The ES makes up a large portion of Lexus' US sales, as does the RX. Both are FWD, Camry based vehicles (the Avalon is also Camry based). No doubt, that does hurt Lexus' appeal to some. Even if Mercedes and BMW move into FWD, they can still claim it isn't based on a mass market family sedan that's available at your next rental counter. Audi's "worldwide sales lead," mostly comes from little FWD sedans in China, so I don't really count them on the same level as the other two, but they are still up there (if partly by association)..
They also don't sell the ES in Japan.
The ES makes up a large portion of Lexus' US sales, as does the RX. Both are FWD, Camry based vehicles (the Avalon is also Camry based). No doubt, that does hurt Lexus' appeal to some. Even if Mercedes and BMW move into FWD, they can still claim it isn't based on a mass market family sedan that's available at your next rental counter. Audi's "worldwide sales lead," mostly comes from little FWD sedans in China, so I don't really count them on the same level as the other two, but they are still up there (if partly by association)..
12-07-13, 04:48 AM
#17
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I agree. Merc and Audi will sell more initially to get folks into the "name" but those numbers will drop within three years. Not only will the brand name devalue, it is just not apples to apples .I have to admit the $29,900 CLA was announced just after I bought my first Lexus and I wondered if I made a mistake. I did a "build your Mercedes" to add the identical options I already have in my IS which brought the price to $42K, more than I paid for the IS. My friend was looking for Merc at the same time and we went shopping together, Merc did not come close to the feel of the Lexus. I am not a car pro I just love my Lex, after driving the others the offer of an even lower base model does not intrigue me. I see a lot of buyers remorse down the road for those that jump for this marketing strategy.
12-07-13, 07:33 AM
#18
In all, it's a strange argument to say that offering more, even at greater price, will deter buyers. If anything, our cars are overpriced to begin with and don't offer enough. Doubtful the logistics of combining the Luxury and F Sport Packages will increase the base price of a barebones base model.
12-07-13, 07:41 AM
#19
It's not a strange argument. I assume everyone who can buy this car gets economics. They know their demographics. They know they're brand. They know how much every little part costs. That's why Libby's only puts 5 peas in the soup. An extra pea costs money. They know Americans will not buy a small car for 60K. Those people will out of American habit look for a big car for 60K that bespeaks their wealth. The IS is a 50K brand max and a good value. Go above that and reviewers and the public will take points away for cost. Our cars are not overpriced because of the tech put into them that you can't get elsewhere. Yes, there is a brand prestige premium paid but it's less than a BMW.
I own a business. I'm not going to change what is cost efficient and profitable to accommodate a few outliers. I'm not IBM so I don't have the brand value or the cash to offer customization. The processes cost too much. BMW can sell a 60K 3 series. It's spends 3x as much as Lexus on advertising. It is a stand alone brand that has been built up for 75 years.
I think you're just being contrary now.
I own a business. I'm not going to change what is cost efficient and profitable to accommodate a few outliers. I'm not IBM so I don't have the brand value or the cash to offer customization. The processes cost too much. BMW can sell a 60K 3 series. It's spends 3x as much as Lexus on advertising. It is a stand alone brand that has been built up for 75 years.
I think you're just being contrary now.
Last edited by Glashub; 12-07-13 at 07:47 AM.
12-07-13, 08:02 AM
#20
Not being contrary to be contrary. That'd be a waste.
The IS in the US is a compromise at best. The F Sport Package makes for one of the best driving / handling cars in the segment (which includes the C-Class, 3 Series and A4), but many features and capabilities that are the current day norms are sacrificed, and there's no doubt in my mind that many pass on the model due to same, as I was about to.
When the Luxury and F Sport Packages can be combined in the rest of the world, it doesn't make it much more cost efficient to NOT offer same in the US, especially when there will be buyers that wouldn't have been otherwise. We're talking $3-5k, not $10k.
And this is not a matter of taking base IS' out of the pipeline. The distribution network can more than accommodate additional inventory.
The IS in the US is a compromise at best. The F Sport Package makes for one of the best driving / handling cars in the segment (which includes the C-Class, 3 Series and A4), but many features and capabilities that are the current day norms are sacrificed, and there's no doubt in my mind that many pass on the model due to same, as I was about to.
When the Luxury and F Sport Packages can be combined in the rest of the world, it doesn't make it much more cost efficient to NOT offer same in the US, especially when there will be buyers that wouldn't have been otherwise. We're talking $3-5k, not $10k.
And this is not a matter of taking base IS' out of the pipeline. The distribution network can more than accommodate additional inventory.
Last edited by dbs600; 12-07-13 at 09:53 AM.
12-07-13, 09:58 AM
#22
Toyota invented the "just in time" concept to combat the effects of 20 years of stagnation and deflation. The margin for cars in 2000 was 18%. Last year it was 8%. You can search my posts I wrote abo9ut that and provided links. They are not in a wishin' and hopin' and how can they be so mean business. It's numbers and numbers speak the loudest in this economy and with the tech available to track and calculate to the nano-cent.
Why do you insist on comparing the Lexus business model to BMW and MB? Google is your friend. Both of those companies have spending power, longevity and brand value that dwarfs Lexus.
"When the Luxury and F Sport Packages can be combined in the rest of the world, it doesn't make it much more cost efficient to NOT offer same in the US, especially when there will be buyers that wouldn't have been otherwise."
You don't read my posts do you? Please provide evidence that people will pay 55K for an IS when the GS is then within reach. Watch this review towards the end he clearly states that car is a winner if they can bring it under 50K. Review after review states this. I'm providing you with free consultation about all of this -- it's my business -- I grow digital and B&M companies for a living! But you keep coming back saying the same thing over and over. No references to brands, the value of the yen, the worth of brands, manufacturer margins, etc, like I have -- just the same refrain from you.
Let me ask you this @dbs600 -- why do you think Lexus doesn't include a luxury package with the F-sport. What do you think their reasoning is? Why would a multi-billion dollar company pass up opportunity to sell cars like BMW and MB in your opinion?
Why do you insist on comparing the Lexus business model to BMW and MB? Google is your friend. Both of those companies have spending power, longevity and brand value that dwarfs Lexus.
"When the Luxury and F Sport Packages can be combined in the rest of the world, it doesn't make it much more cost efficient to NOT offer same in the US, especially when there will be buyers that wouldn't have been otherwise."
You don't read my posts do you? Please provide evidence that people will pay 55K for an IS when the GS is then within reach. Watch this review towards the end he clearly states that car is a winner if they can bring it under 50K. Review after review states this. I'm providing you with free consultation about all of this -- it's my business -- I grow digital and B&M companies for a living! But you keep coming back saying the same thing over and over. No references to brands, the value of the yen, the worth of brands, manufacturer margins, etc, like I have -- just the same refrain from you.
Let me ask you this @dbs600 -- why do you think Lexus doesn't include a luxury package with the F-sport. What do you think their reasoning is? Why would a multi-billion dollar company pass up opportunity to sell cars like BMW and MB in your opinion?
Last edited by Glashub; 12-07-13 at 10:15 AM.
12-07-13, 10:11 AM
#23
They go for the badge. I have a few friends that drive 5 series and they all think that their cars are the sporties. I won't argue with that, 2013 5 series is a great car. But its no longer the ultimate driving machine
, especially when a "dolled up Toyota" outhandles it.
12-07-13, 10:14 AM
#24
Largest automobile companies by revenue: VW, Toyota, GM, Daimler, Ford, Fiat, BMW.
And for our purposes, read: Audi, Lexus, Mercedes, BMW.
Last edited by dbs600; 12-07-13 at 11:17 AM.
12-07-13, 10:14 AM
#25
Well, this just proves that majority of BMW buyers are clueless about cars. They go for the badge.
I have a few friends that drive 5 series and they all think that their cars are the sporties. I won't argue with that, 2013 5 series is a great car. But its no longer the ultimate driving machine, especially when a "dolled up Toyota" outhandles it.
They go for the badge. I have a few friends that drive 5 series and they all think that their cars are the sporties. I won't argue with that, 2013 5 series is a great car. But its no longer the ultimate driving machine
, especially when a "dolled up Toyota" outhandles it.
12-07-13, 10:18 AM
#26
Let me ask you this @dbs600 -- why do you think Lexus doesn't include a luxury package with the F-sport. What do you think their reasoning is? Why would a multi-billion dollar company pass up opportunity to sell cars like BMW and MB in your opinion?
12-07-13, 10:20 AM
#27
Well, this just proves that majority of BMW buyers are clueless about cars. They go for the badge.
I have a few friends that drive 5 series and they all think that their cars are the sporties. I won't argue with that, 2013 5 series is a great car. But its no longer the ultimate driving machine, especially when a "dolled up Toyota" outhandles it.
They go for the badge. I have a few friends that drive 5 series and they all think that their cars are the sporties. I won't argue with that, 2013 5 series is a great car. But its no longer the ultimate driving machine
, especially when a "dolled up Toyota" outhandles it.
12-07-13, 10:41 AM
#28
No! Wrong! Google Forbes top 100 brands. Audi 43, Lexus, 73, BMW in the top 10. Businesses don't spend money to support divisions. That's why they're called divisions. They are self supporting.
Let me ask you this @dbs600 -- why do you think Lexus doesn't include a luxury package with the F-sport. What do you think their reasoning is? Why would a multi-billion dollar company pass up opportunity to sell cars like BMW and MB in your opinion?
Let me ask you this @dbs600 -- why do you think Lexus doesn't include a luxury package with the F-sport. What do you think their reasoning is? Why would a multi-billion dollar company pass up opportunity to sell cars like BMW and MB in your opinion?
You're talking brand and I'm not; that's the disconnect here. Of course nothing can touch the brand equity of Mercedes-Benz; no denying that, and yes, BMW is on top of its game at the moment, but brand equity does not have to do with the plain and simple truth that the IS is direct competition for the C/3/A4; these models are the reason Lexus created the IS.
It's an oversight to not offer leather, memory seats, automatically dipping side view mirrors, power folding side view mirrors, a power adjustable steering wheel, rain sensing windshield wipers, parking sensors, ventilated seats and a heated steering wheel as available features on F Sport models.
As far as speculating why they didn't roll-out the IS with an offering that combines the Luxury and F Sport Packages, who knows(?), while I deem same a mistake, maybe they're taking a page out of Apple's book and will offer same next year.
Last edited by dbs600; 12-07-13 at 11:51 AM.
12-07-13, 11:45 AM
#29
Then why do Car and Driver, Road & Track, Motor Trend and Automobile Magazine all compare the IS with the C/3/A4, generation after generation? What do you believe to be the IS' direct competitors?
Last edited by dbs600; 12-07-13 at 01:06 PM.
12-07-13, 12:51 PM
#30
I agree with that assessment of Lexus' standings in the US market. It should be noted a blend of F-Sport and Luxury packages (i.e, leather, ventilated F-Sport seats) are available in some other markets (notably Japan, though Toyota also sells a V12 sedan in addition to an AWD Corolla variant there, too).
They also don't sell the ES in Japan.
The ES makes up a large portion of Lexus' US sales, as does the RX. Both are FWD, Camry based vehicles (the Avalon is also Camry based). No doubt, that does hurt Lexus' appeal to some. Even if Mercedes and BMW move into FWD, they can still claim it isn't based on a mass market family sedan that's available at your next rental counter. Audi's "worldwide sales lead," mostly comes from little FWD sedans in China, so I don't really count them on the same level as the other two, but they are still up there (if partly by association)..
They also don't sell the ES in Japan.
The ES makes up a large portion of Lexus' US sales, as does the RX. Both are FWD, Camry based vehicles (the Avalon is also Camry based). No doubt, that does hurt Lexus' appeal to some. Even if Mercedes and BMW move into FWD, they can still claim it isn't based on a mass market family sedan that's available at your next rental counter. Audi's "worldwide sales lead," mostly comes from little FWD sedans in China, so I don't really count them on the same level as the other two, but they are still up there (if partly by association)..