Advice from repeat lessees with Lexus
10-07-14 | 08:35 AM
#16
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From: PA
lol no problem! 
Wednesday, thanks for your input. Sounds like Lexus is definitely more tolerant.
With my 2011 IS that I recently turned in, I didn't have any dings or curb rash but I had a few relatively minor but still noticeable scratches, a scuff on one mirror from some a-hole that hit it in a parking lot and left the scene and also a repaired rock chip in the windshield. A third party company inspected it prior to turn in and added up all of the wear and tear, mine fell below what they considered excess so I didn't have to pay anything, also because I leased another Lexus there was no dispensation fee. I should also note that I had 3 of the original tires that had 45k miles on them and they also fell within the normal wear and tear.
10-07-14 | 09:14 AM
#17
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From: PA
I'll second that Andrea and I still hope you are able to prevail in your dispute. One other thing I'd like to add here. In fact it was Wednesday's post that reminded me of this thought. Thanks Wednesday! 
I was actually going to post it earlier but didn't want to get too long winded.
Did you happen to mention you were getting into a Lexus to anyone at the Mazda dealer? The additional scrutiny they put into your final inspection might be "punishment" because you are bailing on Mazda and moving up to the luxury segment. They may feel you are able to afford the additional charges and since you aren't going to lease another Mazda they have nothing to lose by trying to bill you for what they claim is beyond normal wear and tear. The car business can be pretty sleazy at times. Again, I do hope you are successful in your dispute. Please keep us posted.
I was actually going to post it earlier but didn't want to get too long winded.Did you happen to mention you were getting into a Lexus to anyone at the Mazda dealer? The additional scrutiny they put into your final inspection might be "punishment" because you are bailing on Mazda and moving up to the luxury segment. They may feel you are able to afford the additional charges and since you aren't going to lease another Mazda they have nothing to lose by trying to bill you for what they claim is beyond normal wear and tear. The car business can be pretty sleazy at times. Again, I do hope you are successful in your dispute. Please keep us posted.
Update: I spoke with Mazda Capital and they said they can't discuss the charges until the car is sold. And I'm sure once the car is sold they'll come back and tell me "well now it's too late...". 
Hi Andrea - prior to the ES350 we have now, we had two leased IS's that we traded rather than turn in at lease end because they had some positive equity - you might have that option when the time comes - probably not many leased Mazda's are in that situation at lease end.
I did, however, have a couple Hondas that I turned in at lease end. I made an appointment with the inspection company and personally met with the inspector at the time of the inspection. That way, you can discuss any cited discrepancies right then and there and possibly resolve them at that time. I was given a written record of the inspection that listed the discrepancies - in Honda's case, they waive up to $1500 in damages, so I had no problems (they have recently reduced their waiver to $500). Anyway, my point is if you have to go through this again, insist on being present for the inspection - that way I don't think you'll have a repeat of that unacceptable billing - that is crazy.
Good Luck and let us know how it goes.
Bill G
I did, however, have a couple Hondas that I turned in at lease end. I made an appointment with the inspection company and personally met with the inspector at the time of the inspection. That way, you can discuss any cited discrepancies right then and there and possibly resolve them at that time. I was given a written record of the inspection that listed the discrepancies - in Honda's case, they waive up to $1500 in damages, so I had no problems (they have recently reduced their waiver to $500). Anyway, my point is if you have to go through this again, insist on being present for the inspection - that way I don't think you'll have a repeat of that unacceptable billing - that is crazy.
Good Luck and let us know how it goes.
Bill G
Thanks for your input. What do you mean by "two leased IS's that we traded rather than turn in at lease end"? How do you trade in a lease? Thanks
10-07-14 | 09:58 AM
#18
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jul 2009
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From: CA
I did...but only because they asked. Update: I spoke with Mazda Capital and they said they can't discuss the charges until the car is sold. And I'm sure once the car is sold they'll come back and tell me "well now it's too late...".
Bill,
Thanks for your input. What do you mean by "two leased IS's that we traded rather than turn in at lease end"? How do you trade in a lease? Thanks
Update: I spoke with Mazda Capital and they said they can't discuss the charges until the car is sold. And I'm sure once the car is sold they'll come back and tell me "well now it's too late...". Bill,
Thanks for your input. What do you mean by "two leased IS's that we traded rather than turn in at lease end"? How do you trade in a lease? Thanks
10-07-14 | 11:56 AM
#19
Lead Lap
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: FL
I did...but only because they asked. Update: I spoke with Mazda Capital and they said they can't discuss the charges until the car is sold. And I'm sure once the car is sold they'll come back and tell me "well now it's too late...".
That doesn't make any sense at all..
With Lexus, the third party estimator that looked at my car (about a month in advance of lease end) took photos of everything and sent it to Lexus financial who then made everything available to me so that if there were any disputes ahead of turning it in I could address them or correct the damage myself. Did you get photos of the damage on your car?
Bill,
Thanks for your input. What do you mean by "two leased IS's that we traded rather than turn in at lease end"? How do you trade in a lease? Thanks
Update: I spoke with Mazda Capital and they said they can't discuss the charges until the car is sold. And I'm sure once the car is sold they'll come back and tell me "well now it's too late...". That doesn't make any sense at all..
With Lexus, the third party estimator that looked at my car (about a month in advance of lease end) took photos of everything and sent it to Lexus financial who then made everything available to me so that if there were any disputes ahead of turning it in I could address them or correct the damage myself. Did you get photos of the damage on your car? Bill,
Thanks for your input. What do you mean by "two leased IS's that we traded rather than turn in at lease end"? How do you trade in a lease? Thanks
10-07-14 | 12:30 PM
#20
Driver
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From: MD
Unfortunately, it does sound like that's the way they are trying to play this. If they are billing you for what they feel is excessive wear and tear they should be open to discuss it and it should not matter if the car is sold or not. It sounds like they are going to base your dispute on the price they get for the car when they sell it and that's absolutely egregious. Do you have a friend who is an attorney by any chance? If so I would run this by them and see what they think.
If you ever find yourself in this situation again try and play it cool and tell the dealer you are not going to lease another vehicle. Tell them you and your husband are downsizing and plan to share one vehicle or something like that. Sometimes it's best to play the "poor card" even if times are good. There are too many people that try to take advantage of others the moment they sense there is a little extra to go around. Car dealers are like sharks and can smell blood in the water.
I here ya! I saw a TV ad the other night bragging about a high yield savings account at .9%. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that 2% below the average rate of inflation? Thus if I was to keep a bunch of money in an account like that, I'd slowly fall behind every year. In hindsight, I should've been a banker or a finance guy! They seem to know all the tricks. They take your money, give a half percent, then turn around and make 10% or more off it.
Leasing in just another form of financing - there is a payoff amount just like a conventional retail auto loan. If the value of the leased vehicle is more than the payoff, it's wise just to trade it in or sell it to a private party. Obviously, if the value is less than the payoff, turn in is probably the way to go (unless over mileage/excess wear and tear charges are more than the negative equity).
How can you sell a leased vehicle to a private party when you don't own it? 
You can have someone take over your lease payments but that would be considered a sublet which likely isn't allowed. You would have to go to the dealer with the person who wants to take over the payments and convince them to void your lease and write up a new one for them.
10-07-14 | 12:48 PM
#21
Lexus Champion
Joined: Nov 2013
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From: WA
WT . . .? How can you sell a leased vehicle to a private party when you don't own it? You can have someone take over your lease payments but that would be considered a sublet which likely isn't allowed. You would have to go to the dealer with the person who wants to take over the payments and convince them to void your lease and write up a new one for them.
How can you sell a leased vehicle to a private party when you don't own it? You can have someone take over your lease payments but that would be considered a sublet which likely isn't allowed. You would have to go to the dealer with the person who wants to take over the payments and convince them to void your lease and write up a new one for them.Selling it to a private party is essentially the same as a dealer trade. On a lease you can purchase the car outright at any time, even before the lease is up. So say the payoff (remaining payments plus residual value) is $20k. Sell it private party for $22k, pay off the $20k, keep $2k.
It's like when I traded my Tacoma, which was leased, for my IS. I had about 6 months left on my Tacoma lease. Residual was about $18,800, plus six remaining payments (about $2400) meant the payoff was $21,200. Lexus dealer gave me more than $21.2k on the trade, wrote a $21.2k check to Toyota, and gave me the rest, and the truck was theirs to sell. No need to worry about mileage overages, lease inspections, etc.
Last edited by JDR76; 10-07-14 at 12:52 PM.
10-07-14 | 02:57 PM
#22
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,193
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From: CA
Hi Andrea,
Unfortunately, it does sound like that's the way they are trying to play this. If they are billing you for what they feel is excessive wear and tear they should be open to discuss it and it should not matter if the car is sold or not. It sounds like they are going to base your dispute on the price they get for the car when they sell it and that's absolutely egregious. Do you have a friend who is an attorney by any chance? If so I would run this by them and see what they think.
If you ever find yourself in this situation again try and play it cool and tell the dealer you are not going to lease another vehicle. Tell them you and your husband are downsizing and plan to share one vehicle or something like that. Sometimes it's best to play the "poor card" even if times are good. There are too many people that try to take advantage of others the moment they sense there is a little extra to go around. Car dealers are like sharks and can smell blood in the water.
I totally agree with you my friend. Brokers make money whether their clients make money, lose money or just hold onto positions "forever". In my next life I will take that series 7 exam, get my broker's license and live large. Dare I say it but you and I are perfect examples of this. If not for the low interest rate environment we wouldn't even be the market so I have to assume that brokers (and online trading houses) have done extremely well these past few years.
WT . . .? How can you sell a leased vehicle to a private party when you don't own it? You can have someone take over your lease payments but that would be considered a sublet which likely isn't allowed. You would have to go to the dealer with the person who wants to take over the payments and convince them to void your lease and write up a new one for them.
Unfortunately, it does sound like that's the way they are trying to play this. If they are billing you for what they feel is excessive wear and tear they should be open to discuss it and it should not matter if the car is sold or not. It sounds like they are going to base your dispute on the price they get for the car when they sell it and that's absolutely egregious. Do you have a friend who is an attorney by any chance? If so I would run this by them and see what they think.
If you ever find yourself in this situation again try and play it cool and tell the dealer you are not going to lease another vehicle. Tell them you and your husband are downsizing and plan to share one vehicle or something like that. Sometimes it's best to play the "poor card" even if times are good. There are too many people that try to take advantage of others the moment they sense there is a little extra to go around. Car dealers are like sharks and can smell blood in the water.
I totally agree with you my friend. Brokers make money whether their clients make money, lose money or just hold onto positions "forever". In my next life I will take that series 7 exam, get my broker's license and live large. Dare I say it but you and I are perfect examples of this. If not for the low interest rate environment we wouldn't even be the market so I have to assume that brokers (and online trading houses) have done extremely well these past few years.
WT . . .?
How can you sell a leased vehicle to a private party when you don't own it? You can have someone take over your lease payments but that would be considered a sublet which likely isn't allowed. You would have to go to the dealer with the person who wants to take over the payments and convince them to void your lease and write up a new one for them.
10-07-14 | 04:10 PM
#23
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From: PA
"In the same way you can sell a financed vehicle before it's paid off.
Selling it to a private party is essentially the same as a dealer trade. On a lease you can purchase the car outright at any time, even before the lease is up. So say the payoff (remaining payments plus residual value) is $20k. Sell it private party for $22k, pay off the $20k, keep $2k.
It's like when I traded my Tacoma, which was leased, for my IS. I had about 6 months left on my Tacoma lease. Residual was about $18,800, plus six remaining payments (about $2400) meant the payoff was $21,200. Lexus dealer gave me more than $21.2k on the trade, wrote a $21.2k check to Toyota, and gave me the rest, and the truck was theirs to sell. No need to worry about mileage overages, lease inspections, etc."
Wow, looking back I totally wish I would have done that. Could be in sitting high and dry in positive territory now instead of dealing with this bs...unfortunately I didn't know this was possible and Lexus didn't offer me the option. Oh well, you live and learn!!
Selling it to a private party is essentially the same as a dealer trade. On a lease you can purchase the car outright at any time, even before the lease is up. So say the payoff (remaining payments plus residual value) is $20k. Sell it private party for $22k, pay off the $20k, keep $2k.
It's like when I traded my Tacoma, which was leased, for my IS. I had about 6 months left on my Tacoma lease. Residual was about $18,800, plus six remaining payments (about $2400) meant the payoff was $21,200. Lexus dealer gave me more than $21.2k on the trade, wrote a $21.2k check to Toyota, and gave me the rest, and the truck was theirs to sell. No need to worry about mileage overages, lease inspections, etc."
Wow, looking back I totally wish I would have done that. Could be in sitting high and dry in positive territory now instead of dealing with this bs...unfortunately I didn't know this was possible and Lexus didn't offer me the option. Oh well, you live and learn!!
Last edited by AndreaL; 10-08-14 at 09:37 AM.
10-07-14 | 06:02 PM
#24
Pole Position
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: PA
In the same way you can sell a financed vehicle before it's paid off.
Selling it to a private party is essentially the same as a dealer trade. On a lease you can purchase the car outright at any time, even before the lease is up. So say the payoff (remaining payments plus residual value) is $20k. Sell it private party for $22k, pay off the $20k, keep $2k.
It's like when I traded my Tacoma, which was leased, for my IS. I had about 6 months left on my Tacoma lease. Residual was about $18,800, plus six remaining payments (about $2400) meant the payoff was $21,200. Lexus dealer gave me more than $21.2k on the trade, wrote a $21.2k check to Toyota, and gave me the rest, and the truck was theirs to sell. No need to worry about mileage overages, lease inspections, etc.
Selling it to a private party is essentially the same as a dealer trade. On a lease you can purchase the car outright at any time, even before the lease is up. So say the payoff (remaining payments plus residual value) is $20k. Sell it private party for $22k, pay off the $20k, keep $2k.
It's like when I traded my Tacoma, which was leased, for my IS. I had about 6 months left on my Tacoma lease. Residual was about $18,800, plus six remaining payments (about $2400) meant the payoff was $21,200. Lexus dealer gave me more than $21.2k on the trade, wrote a $21.2k check to Toyota, and gave me the rest, and the truck was theirs to sell. No need to worry about mileage overages, lease inspections, etc.
Andrea, I once leased an RSX. I went way over the times. I wasn't about to turn the car in and pay those high fees. So, I found out the payoff amount, got a car loan from a bank and essentially bought my own leased car. Now that the car was in my name, I was free to sell it private party, trade it in towards a new car, or just keep it. I ended up keeping it for another year or so, then sold it to a friend.
10-07-14 | 06:30 PM
#25
Driver
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From: Gotham
This is why I always make the argument to never, ever lease! If Lexus leases are anything like Toyota leases, then brace yourself. The only car I would ever advise leasing (which is throwing money down the drain to begin with) if you absolutely must lease is a BMW. Now I'm no BMW fanboy and I'm not a big fan of their cars, but they have bar none the best leases out there period.
10-07-14 | 06:45 PM
#26
Driver
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 178
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From: MD
This is why I always make the argument to never, ever lease! If Lexus leases are anything like Toyota leases, then brace yourself. The only car I would ever advise leasing (which is throwing money down the drain to begin with) if you absolutely must lease is a BMW. Now I'm no BMW fanboy and I'm not a big fan of their cars, but they have bar none the best leases out there period.
10-08-14 | 05:41 AM
#27
Intermediate
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 395
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From: CT
Just wondering what is so much better about BMW leases versus anyone's else
This is why I always make the argument to never, ever lease! If Lexus leases are anything like Toyota leases, then brace yourself. The only car I would ever advise leasing (which is throwing money down the drain to begin with) if you absolutely must lease is a BMW. Now I'm no BMW fanboy and I'm not a big fan of their cars, but they have bar none the best leases out there period.
10-08-14 | 06:11 AM
#28
Driver
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 181
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From: IA
Trading in a leased car vs trading in a owned car is definitely different in Iowa and I believe state to state. If you trade in a leased vehicle towards a new car purchase you get taxed on the full amount of the new vehicle. So say you buy a car that is $50K and they give you $30K for your leased trade in you get taxed on the full $50K amount...whereas if you own the vehicle in the above scenerio you get taxed on the difference so you would only be taxed for the $20K difference. In Iowa that is $3000 vs $1200 (6% sales tax). Again something for those to look at when comparing lease vs own.
Finally I definitely agree with AndreaL...trade in the lease instead of turning it in. Chances are you earned a little bit of equity in the lease if you got a good deal up front. I traded in my leased 2012 MDX about 6 months early and bought a 2014 Highlander. I got out of the lease early, didn't have to deal with inspections and crap, and got a little bit of equity back out of it. However like I mentioned above I got taxed on the full purchase amount of the Highlander.
Finally I definitely agree with AndreaL...trade in the lease instead of turning it in. Chances are you earned a little bit of equity in the lease if you got a good deal up front. I traded in my leased 2012 MDX about 6 months early and bought a 2014 Highlander. I got out of the lease early, didn't have to deal with inspections and crap, and got a little bit of equity back out of it. However like I mentioned above I got taxed on the full purchase amount of the Highlander.
Last edited by sarcoptic; 10-08-14 at 06:15 AM.
10-08-14 | 12:16 PM
#29
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,193
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From: CA
Trading in a leased car vs trading in a owned car is definitely different in Iowa and I believe state to state. If you trade in a leased vehicle towards a new car purchase you get taxed on the full amount of the new vehicle. So say you buy a car that is $50K and they give you $30K for your leased trade in you get taxed on the full $50K amount...whereas if you own the vehicle in the above scenerio you get taxed on the difference so you would only be taxed for the $20K difference. In Iowa that is $3000 vs $1200 (6% sales tax). Again something for those to look at when comparing lease vs own.
Finally I definitely agree with AndreaL...trade in the lease instead of turning it in. Chances are you earned a little bit of equity in the lease if you got a good deal up front. I traded in my leased 2012 MDX about 6 months early and bought a 2014 Highlander. I got out of the lease early, didn't have to deal with inspections and crap, and got a little bit of equity back out of it. However like I mentioned above I got taxed on the full purchase amount of the Highlander.
Finally I definitely agree with AndreaL...trade in the lease instead of turning it in. Chances are you earned a little bit of equity in the lease if you got a good deal up front. I traded in my leased 2012 MDX about 6 months early and bought a 2014 Highlander. I got out of the lease early, didn't have to deal with inspections and crap, and got a little bit of equity back out of it. However like I mentioned above I got taxed on the full purchase amount of the Highlander.
10-08-14 | 01:39 PM
#30
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Sep 2014
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From: NY
I was afraid of having an issue like that with my Nissan Maxima.. especially when they hire a third-party (retired Nissan employees) to check the car in. Here in NY dealers are more lenient on small dings and scratches b/c it's typical in this state.