engine break in period - truth or myth?
01-15-15, 06:16 AM
#16
Lexus Test Driver
The first thing the manual notes is to avoid sudden stops for a hundred miles or so (186 miles). This is most likely related to making sure you have proper pad transfer or "bed-in" on the brakes. Since they dont want to have people doing a single break-in on the brakes (since most people are not car gurus) the probably figure 186 miles of normal driving will show pad transfer. During this period you will also experience tire break-in. This is probably also why they say dont abruptly stop during this break-in period.
As tirerack states...
"As tires are cured, a release lubricant is applied to prevent them from sticking in their mold. Some of the lubricant stays on the surface of your tires, reducing traction until it is worn away. Five hundred miles of easy acceleration, cornering and braking will allow the mold release lubricant to wear off, allowing the other tire components to begin working together."
I imagine that is one of the single most important factors in keeping the "break-in" template in owners manuals. To avoid lawsuits related to people driving like loonies when they leave the lot with new slick tires.
The breaking in of the engine is going to happen from driving the car whether it be driving the ##@$ out of it or not. Actually it would be worse to keep the car lugged at a low rpm.
If you needed to break in the car quicker, you could probably bed the brakes yourself the day your leave the lot and do some aggressive driving to get the tires heat cycled a few times (being very cautious and aware of loss of traction) and be done with the break-in in a couple days.
I had my car at the track doing lap days soon after I bought it and it has still gone 9800 miles on the 0w-20 oil without needing a drop of make up oil.
Mike
"As tires are cured, a release lubricant is applied to prevent them from sticking in their mold. Some of the lubricant stays on the surface of your tires, reducing traction until it is worn away. Five hundred miles of easy acceleration, cornering and braking will allow the mold release lubricant to wear off, allowing the other tire components to begin working together."
I imagine that is one of the single most important factors in keeping the "break-in" template in owners manuals. To avoid lawsuits related to people driving like loonies when they leave the lot with new slick tires.
The breaking in of the engine is going to happen from driving the car whether it be driving the ##@$ out of it or not. Actually it would be worse to keep the car lugged at a low rpm.
If you needed to break in the car quicker, you could probably bed the brakes yourself the day your leave the lot and do some aggressive driving to get the tires heat cycled a few times (being very cautious and aware of loss of traction) and be done with the break-in in a couple days.
I had my car at the track doing lap days soon after I bought it and it has still gone 9800 miles on the 0w-20 oil without needing a drop of make up oil.
Mike
Last edited by Swacer; 01-15-15 at 06:26 AM.
01-15-15, 06:26 AM
#17
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I enjoy that some people pick & choose what they believe and follow from the manual. Why don't you toss the entire thing and just wing it as far as suggested maintenance and usage of features as well, since clearly it is grossly inaccurate?
It didn't kill me to keep my car off of the track when it was brand new to ensure a smooth start to it's useful life.
It didn't kill me to keep my car off of the track when it was brand new to ensure a smooth start to it's useful life.
01-15-15, 07:18 AM
#18
-Laws of physics? Perhaps you haven't heard of the laws of themodynamics? Perhaps laws of thermal expansion and contraction?
Acutally, that is entirely false. Your springs do need to break in. That way you get a blanaced spring rate entirely all around. Furthermore, wheel bearings need to be broken in smoothly to ensure a long life.
Wrong again. The GT-R engine (after it is hand assembled) is tested at 15minutes at red line on an engine mount. then the car is run around a track. A GT-R is typically delivered with 30-40 miles on it. So your manual is nothing close.
Yet again, don't agree entirely. You have to break in your brake lines and master cylinder. The thermal expansion and contraction of your rubber brake lines is crucial for long time life. Further more, you need to warp in the rings on the master cylinder piston.
And on that note, I'm going to drift off this bi-weekly thread.
Acutally, that is entirely false. Your springs do need to break in. That way you get a blanaced spring rate entirely all around. Furthermore, wheel bearings need to be broken in smoothly to ensure a long life.
Wrong again. The GT-R engine (after it is hand assembled) is tested at 15minutes at red line on an engine mount. then the car is run around a track. A GT-R is typically delivered with 30-40 miles on it. So your manual is nothing close.
Yet again, don't agree entirely. You have to break in your brake lines and master cylinder. The thermal expansion and contraction of your rubber brake lines is crucial for long time life. Further more, you need to warp in the rings on the master cylinder piston.
And on that note, I'm going to drift off this bi-weekly thread.
You do not need to "break-in" springs to achieved "balanced spring rates." I'm not even sure where this came from. Are you actually suggesting a certain type of driving will change your spring rates? Please people, do the research yourself and find a single resource on the internet that says you have to break in a coil spring. Coil springs will naturally settle but the above is completely fabricated. Coil springs do not magically change spring rates from using them.
And breaking in wheel bearings??? Really??? Please show us any single piece of automotive literature that indicates a special procedure for breaking in wheel bearings. This is completely a new one.
Again, I did not say the GTR is not driven on the track. I said the manual states it requires the same break-in as our cars. Here is the manual from an actual GT-R
"Until 300 miles (500 km):
. Do not depress the accelerator pedal more
than halfway and avoid rapid acceleration.
. Drive with the engine speed kept at less
than 3,500 RPM.
. Avoid unnecessary quick steering, abrupt
braking and driving on poor roads.
300 to 600 miles (500 to 1,000 km)
. Avoid rapid acceleration in a low gear (1st to
3rd gears) with the accelerator pedal fully
depressed. Depress the pedal slowly.
. Avoid unnecessary quick steering and
abrupt braking.
. Drive with the suspension setup switch in
the COMF mode to allow more suspension
stroke.
600 to 1,200 miles (1,000 to 2,000 km)
. Drive with the engine speed kept relatively
high. Shifting is recommended between 1st
and 4th gears"
And yes, interestingly, Nissan themselves drive this **** out of this car briefly on the track before the supposed required "break-in" they list in the manual that is required. The test track has rapid transitions and I dont see any coil spring problems caused by this, nor would you expect to. And as for running the engine at redline. Yeah, they do that too before they recommend you dont take it over 3500 rpm
Last edited by bhvrdr; 01-15-15 at 12:53 PM.
02-09-16, 01:14 PM
#19
when i got the car i smashed on it i asked the guy at the dealership if there was a breakin period and he said no but the manual is saying other wise lol im at 680 miles on the car and i beat it at least 20 times red lining it should i be worried
Last edited by asiandavid; 02-09-16 at 01:35 PM.
02-09-16, 01:38 PM
#20
You'll notice that you will not achieve peak acceleration and peak economy when brand new with near zero miles on the odometer.
However, after thousands of miles, or even tens of thousands of miles, you will reach peak acceleration and efficiency.
The break-in period for shock absorbers is obviously a lot shorter.
Down the track, the engine should be regularly full throttled to maintain its peak efficiency.
It's just like an exercise cardiologist asking you to jog 30 minutes a day, but jogging 3 minutes of those 30 minutes flat out.
The once a week long 30 minute drive, and the full throttle - heats up the engine etc, to burn and dislodge carbon deposits inside the cylinder head etc...
However, after thousands of miles, or even tens of thousands of miles, you will reach peak acceleration and efficiency.
The break-in period for shock absorbers is obviously a lot shorter.
Down the track, the engine should be regularly full throttled to maintain its peak efficiency.
It's just like an exercise cardiologist asking you to jog 30 minutes a day, but jogging 3 minutes of those 30 minutes flat out.
The once a week long 30 minute drive, and the full throttle - heats up the engine etc, to burn and dislodge carbon deposits inside the cylinder head etc...
02-09-16, 02:05 PM
#21
There is some really ludicrous info in this thread..
Breaking in wheel bearings? What the hell is that? Wheel bearings are machined surfaces with precision tolerances and need to stay that way or you'll have big problems..
And breaking in brake lines?? Uh no.. Even my wife said that is the dumbest thing she has heard; and she knows nothing about cars.
As for breaking in an engine, people forget, that some surfaces inside the engine need to harden.. Like the lobes on your cam shafts. That is done with special additives in your oil.. There is a reason why you can buy something called BREAK IN OIL.. For breaking in engines.
The best thing you can do is cover your *** since you spent huge money on a new car and follow the manual.. They wrote it for a reason..
If you choose to ignore it; don't ***** and moan when your car doesn't last as long as you think it should..
As for spirited driving, I do believe it is recommended by Lexus on the 250's to clear out any carbon deposits in the intake...
What other manufacturers do before you get your car from them is their business...
Breaking in wheel bearings? What the hell is that? Wheel bearings are machined surfaces with precision tolerances and need to stay that way or you'll have big problems..
And breaking in brake lines?? Uh no.. Even my wife said that is the dumbest thing she has heard; and she knows nothing about cars.
As for breaking in an engine, people forget, that some surfaces inside the engine need to harden.. Like the lobes on your cam shafts. That is done with special additives in your oil.. There is a reason why you can buy something called BREAK IN OIL.. For breaking in engines.
The best thing you can do is cover your *** since you spent huge money on a new car and follow the manual.. They wrote it for a reason..
If you choose to ignore it; don't ***** and moan when your car doesn't last as long as you think it should..
As for spirited driving, I do believe it is recommended by Lexus on the 250's to clear out any carbon deposits in the intake...
What other manufacturers do before you get your car from them is their business...
02-09-16, 02:57 PM
#22
There is some really ludicrous info in this thread..
Breaking in wheel bearings? What the hell is that? Wheel bearings are machined surfaces with precision tolerances and need to stay that way or you'll have big problems..
And breaking in brake lines?? Uh no.. Even my wife said that is the dumbest thing she has heard; and she knows nothing about cars.
As for breaking in an engine, people forget, that some surfaces inside the engine need to harden.. Like the lobes on your cam shafts. That is done with special additives in your oil.. There is a reason why you can buy something called BREAK IN OIL.. For breaking in engines.
The best thing you can do is cover your *** since you spent huge money on a new car and follow the manual.. They wrote it for a reason..
If you choose to ignore it; don't ***** and moan when your car doesn't last as long as you think it should..
As for spirited driving, I do believe it is recommended by Lexus on the 250's to clear out any carbon deposits in the intake...
What other manufacturers do before you get your car from them is their business...
Breaking in wheel bearings? What the hell is that? Wheel bearings are machined surfaces with precision tolerances and need to stay that way or you'll have big problems..
And breaking in brake lines?? Uh no.. Even my wife said that is the dumbest thing she has heard; and she knows nothing about cars.
As for breaking in an engine, people forget, that some surfaces inside the engine need to harden.. Like the lobes on your cam shafts. That is done with special additives in your oil.. There is a reason why you can buy something called BREAK IN OIL.. For breaking in engines.
The best thing you can do is cover your *** since you spent huge money on a new car and follow the manual.. They wrote it for a reason..
If you choose to ignore it; don't ***** and moan when your car doesn't last as long as you think it should..
As for spirited driving, I do believe it is recommended by Lexus on the 250's to clear out any carbon deposits in the intake...
What other manufacturers do before you get your car from them is their business...
02-09-16, 03:12 PM
#23
To be honest, I wouldn't worry about it.. If you are redlining it every day all the time, then yeah, you've shortend the life of the motor.. But if you've hit redline a few times it isn't a big deal.
02-09-16, 03:16 PM
#24
hopefully since i took it off the lot at 20 miles i have at last redlined it 20-25 times at the moment the cars sitting on 650 miles so idk whats the worse case scenario is hopefully best case scenario nothing is wrong with the car and that it can take that kind of abuse off the lot
02-09-16, 06:58 PM
#25
Springs will fatigue and sag over time, so it does need break-in period, but obviously not much.
Shock absorbers need more break-in period, so that the piston slides smoothly along the cylinder wall.
Headlight bulbs need break-in period too; they take time to reach their maximum intensity, but over time, that maximum intensity will unfortunately diminish.
Ditto speakers, and to a lesser extent amplifiers.
Disc pads must bed into the rotors.
Engines are complex so need a lot of break-in.
In short, some things need more breaking-in period than others. There are things that don't need much break-in period.
Generally speaking, the more complex something is, the more breaking-in period it requires.
You can tell if it needs breaking in period, because over time, it will actually fatigue...
.
Shock absorbers need more break-in period, so that the piston slides smoothly along the cylinder wall.
Headlight bulbs need break-in period too; they take time to reach their maximum intensity, but over time, that maximum intensity will unfortunately diminish.
Ditto speakers, and to a lesser extent amplifiers.
Disc pads must bed into the rotors.
Engines are complex so need a lot of break-in.
In short, some things need more breaking-in period than others. There are things that don't need much break-in period.
Generally speaking, the more complex something is, the more breaking-in period it requires.
You can tell if it needs breaking in period, because over time, it will actually fatigue...
.
02-10-16, 02:13 PM
#26
Springs will fatigue and sag over time, so it does need break-in period, but obviously not much.
Shock absorbers need more break-in period, so that the piston slides smoothly along the cylinder wall.
Headlight bulbs need break-in period too; they take time to reach their maximum intensity, but over time, that maximum intensity will unfortunately diminish.
Ditto speakers, and to a lesser extent amplifiers.
Disc pads must bed into the rotors.
Engines are complex so need a lot of break-in.
.
Shock absorbers need more break-in period, so that the piston slides smoothly along the cylinder wall.
Headlight bulbs need break-in period too; they take time to reach their maximum intensity, but over time, that maximum intensity will unfortunately diminish.
Ditto speakers, and to a lesser extent amplifiers.
Disc pads must bed into the rotors.
Engines are complex so need a lot of break-in.
.
A cars springs require no breaking in. Neither do the shocks.
Same for headlights, they are good to go from day one, except that yes, depending on the type of lamp used, they CAN fade. This is not an issue with LED or Halogen/tungsten lamps. HID lamps do lose about 30% of their intensity over their life.
As for the stereo system you are way way way off.. There is absolutely no breaking in.. I don't know where you got any of that from but you are so wrong on that.. The only advice I would give anyone on a stereo is, in cold weather, don't go cranking it right away, let the speakers warm up on low volume for 20mins or more so you burn off any frost on your voice coils.
02-10-16, 02:54 PM
#27
Bredanf, you are so wrong.
You are too "unsophisticated" in your attitude; you need to be more evidence-based.
You need to read more articles like these:
http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeak...act-or-fiction
.
You are too "unsophisticated" in your attitude; you need to be more evidence-based.
You need to read more articles like these:
http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeak...act-or-fiction
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 02-10-16 at 02:58 PM.
02-10-16, 03:59 PM
#28
Well then enlighten us with all your evidence.
And if all your going to do is refer us to stuff written on the internet, well I'm not holding my breath, because we all know, if it's on the internet, it must be true right?
And as for your article you should really read it AGAIN
My favorite parts:
Required break in time for the common spider-diaphragm-surround is typically on the order of 10s of seconds and is a one-off proposition, not requiring repetition.
So after less than a minute of playtime..
Break in, however, isn't necessarily a discrete step, purpose built in to the driver or loudspeaker system manufacture process. Does that mean loudspeaker systems produced by a manufacturer that doesn't break in the drivers require breaking in by the consumer? No, not necessarily.
Quite often, spider break in occurs when the driver is tested, before and/or after placement in the cabinet for which it's intended. Driver testing by signal stimulus at some point (or points) in the manufacturing process - if done at levels sufficient to break in the spider - generally makes further break in unnecessary. Hence, a finished system will not - in so far as its drivers are concerned - require further break in by a consumer once taken home from the dealer.
Clearly, the differences in amplitude response between the pre- & post-break in systems are negligible. Indeed, maximum amplitude difference within the passband of the system is on the order of .09 dB! In passing it should be noted that it was the broken in system that exhibited the down .09 dB amplitude response at resonance. Also included for comparative purposes are the impedance curves for both systems.
So according to that, the broken in system performed WORSE, and it was negligible..
As in the preceding case, the differences seen between the amplitude response plots of the pre- and post- broken in systems is negligible, the maximum magnitude difference occurring within the passband being .02 dB. Although difficult to tell given the graphic's resolution and the very small amplitude differences to begin with, it was the burned in system's amplitude response that was .02 dB down at resonance. In Graphic 4 we see the impedance plots of both systems, showing results similar to those seen in the mid-range simulations.
Their second test... So do tell.. Why is it required to 'break-in' a stereo.. Because according to your own example, it is not required and makes such a minuscule dimminished difference in performance
And if all your going to do is refer us to stuff written on the internet, well I'm not holding my breath, because we all know, if it's on the internet, it must be true right?
And as for your article you should really read it AGAIN
My favorite parts:
Required break in time for the common spider-diaphragm-surround is typically on the order of 10s of seconds and is a one-off proposition, not requiring repetition.
So after less than a minute of playtime..
Break in, however, isn't necessarily a discrete step, purpose built in to the driver or loudspeaker system manufacture process. Does that mean loudspeaker systems produced by a manufacturer that doesn't break in the drivers require breaking in by the consumer? No, not necessarily.
Quite often, spider break in occurs when the driver is tested, before and/or after placement in the cabinet for which it's intended. Driver testing by signal stimulus at some point (or points) in the manufacturing process - if done at levels sufficient to break in the spider - generally makes further break in unnecessary. Hence, a finished system will not - in so far as its drivers are concerned - require further break in by a consumer once taken home from the dealer.
Clearly, the differences in amplitude response between the pre- & post-break in systems are negligible. Indeed, maximum amplitude difference within the passband of the system is on the order of .09 dB! In passing it should be noted that it was the broken in system that exhibited the down .09 dB amplitude response at resonance. Also included for comparative purposes are the impedance curves for both systems.
So according to that, the broken in system performed WORSE, and it was negligible..
As in the preceding case, the differences seen between the amplitude response plots of the pre- and post- broken in systems is negligible, the maximum magnitude difference occurring within the passband being .02 dB. Although difficult to tell given the graphic's resolution and the very small amplitude differences to begin with, it was the burned in system's amplitude response that was .02 dB down at resonance. In Graphic 4 we see the impedance plots of both systems, showing results similar to those seen in the mid-range simulations.
Their second test... So do tell.. Why is it required to 'break-in' a stereo.. Because according to your own example, it is not required and makes such a minuscule dimminished difference in performance
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