New Generation IS
02-06-18, 08:13 AM
#61
drives cars
What timing on your post, as I was shocked to see a 350 outperform an F too. I just posted about the lap times in the 2nd gen performance forum.
I agree, the handling of the 3rd gen IS is superb IMO, but as you can see, the 2011 IS F kicks the 350's butt - seems the suspension tweaks Lexus made for the 2011 MY paid off huge for the F.
2011 IS F = 3:05.4
2014 IS 350 F sport = 3:13.4
2008 IS F = 3:14.0
Source
Couldn't agree more, as it would seem the lap times prove this out (even though the 2011 is still 2gen, improvements were made), as what the above data says to me is that all that power without control is somewhat pointless.
I agree, the handling of the 3rd gen IS is superb IMO, but as you can see, the 2011 IS F kicks the 350's butt - seems the suspension tweaks Lexus made for the 2011 MY paid off huge for the F.
2011 IS F = 3:05.4
2014 IS 350 F sport = 3:13.4
2008 IS F = 3:14.0
Source
Couldn't agree more, as it would seem the lap times prove this out (even though the 2011 is still 2gen, improvements were made), as what the above data says to me is that all that power without control is somewhat pointless.
I remember C&D raved about it following the update.Mainly I think more power + less or equal weight would be best for performance, but I also hope they can reduce tire noise somewhat, without a tangible weight penalty. Yes, I know - the stock Turanzas aren't great in that regard - but maybe that's part of the answer. Perhaps there's a way, with better materials, to have better sound insulation while also have a lighter or equally light car. I'd say the wind noise suppression is good, but tire noise is the one noisy piece of the experience for me.
02-06-18, 05:31 PM
#62
True, it seems the IS F kicked its own butt with those suspension tweaks. I remember C&D raved about it following the update.
Mainly I think more power + less or equal weight would be best for performance, but I also hope they can reduce tire noise somewhat, without a tangible weight penalty. Yes, I know - the stock Turanzas aren't great in that regard - but maybe that's part of the answer. Perhaps there's a way, with better materials, to have better sound insulation while also have a lighter or equally light car. I'd say the wind noise suppression is good, but tire noise is the one noisy piece of the experience for me.
I remember C&D raved about it following the update.Mainly I think more power + less or equal weight would be best for performance, but I also hope they can reduce tire noise somewhat, without a tangible weight penalty. Yes, I know - the stock Turanzas aren't great in that regard - but maybe that's part of the answer. Perhaps there's a way, with better materials, to have better sound insulation while also have a lighter or equally light car. I'd say the wind noise suppression is good, but tire noise is the one noisy piece of the experience for me.
03-27-18, 02:44 PM
#63
Lexus Test Driver
Old thread - as I was too wondering when the 4th gen Lexus IS will be released. As of March 27th, 2018, I'm slowly starting to think its more lending towards a MY2021.
Here's what I'm assuming what will happen:
1) In 2018, Lexus is releasing MY2019 Lexus UX and maybe even the redesign Lexus ES (since the Camry is out and they haven't touched the ES in awhile.)
2) In 2019, they'll probably update the Lexus GS for MY2020 - based on the Toyota Crown.
3) In 2020, they'll likely preview the 4th gen Lexus IS and sell it as a MY2021.
These assumptions are based on the fact that the Lexus ES hasn't been redesign yet. And, this is likely the next car to get the redesign because it hasn't adopted the Lexus new design language yet. Also, the Lexus GS has to be redesigned prior the Lexus IS.
I would like to also point out that the Lexus IS300/350, with its refresh in 2017, still stacks up pretty nicely versus the Infiniti Q50 2.0/3.0T/3.0TSilverSport, Audi A4 FWD/Quattro, BMW 320i/330i, and Acura TLX I4/V6. This is another reason why I think Toyota will milk the Lexus IS until it needs a redesign.
While I personally would love to the 4th generation Lexus IS to be a "power-house" compared to the competition, I would have to let my reality sink it. It would be better but it won't be faster. The Lexus IS was never a fast car. It was a good looking, comfortable, and relaxing car. IE: The 2nd gen Lexus IS250 (which I previously owned) is an ECO-Box. It was slower than the rest of its competition. And there's nothing wrong with that. It was a nice, relaxing and Eco-friendly car. The Lexus IS350 was faster but it wasn't faster than the G37 and 335i at the time either. As much as Lexus says they want to be more "performance-first", they just don't make performance cars. They are really good at making comfortable cars with high quality and reliably. And this formula is working for them and it sells cars. The 2nd gen Lexus IS250 was pretty much over 80% of their IS sales and that thing was slow. The Infiniti G37 Sedan at the time was faster, better equipped and 2 grand cheaper but people still mainly bought the Lexus IS250.
The thing is: people who buy the Lexus IS are not buying it for performance reasons. Similar to today - consumers could easily get a Q50 3.0T Silver Sport for almost the same money as a Lexus IS200T/300 but they still buy the Lexus.
What's probably going to happen is: the Lexus IS300 will retain the same Turbo 4 engine with no power bumps. (The engine is too new for them to want to do anything). The Lexus GS will likely get a detuned version of the Lexus LS TTV6 and then after that, the Lexus IS350 will probably get the TTV6. Probably will be rated at anywhere between 311HP-350HP so Lexus can retain the Lexus IS350 nameplate.
Here's what I'm assuming what will happen:
1) In 2018, Lexus is releasing MY2019 Lexus UX and maybe even the redesign Lexus ES (since the Camry is out and they haven't touched the ES in awhile.)
2) In 2019, they'll probably update the Lexus GS for MY2020 - based on the Toyota Crown.
3) In 2020, they'll likely preview the 4th gen Lexus IS and sell it as a MY2021.
These assumptions are based on the fact that the Lexus ES hasn't been redesign yet. And, this is likely the next car to get the redesign because it hasn't adopted the Lexus new design language yet. Also, the Lexus GS has to be redesigned prior the Lexus IS.
I would like to also point out that the Lexus IS300/350, with its refresh in 2017, still stacks up pretty nicely versus the Infiniti Q50 2.0/3.0T/3.0TSilverSport, Audi A4 FWD/Quattro, BMW 320i/330i, and Acura TLX I4/V6. This is another reason why I think Toyota will milk the Lexus IS until it needs a redesign.
something tells me the next generation of the IS is going to be good, the LS is a benchmark for the engine and the 10 speed and i haven’t read or heard any complaints with power so far. this might make the next gen IS350/IS400 a much more compelling competitor in the luxury sports sedan class. the real issue is weight and they need to drop it back to the 2IS’s weight, which was a very fast car for its time
The thing is: people who buy the Lexus IS are not buying it for performance reasons. Similar to today - consumers could easily get a Q50 3.0T Silver Sport for almost the same money as a Lexus IS200T/300 but they still buy the Lexus.
What's probably going to happen is: the Lexus IS300 will retain the same Turbo 4 engine with no power bumps. (The engine is too new for them to want to do anything). The Lexus GS will likely get a detuned version of the Lexus LS TTV6 and then after that, the Lexus IS350 will probably get the TTV6. Probably will be rated at anywhere between 311HP-350HP so Lexus can retain the Lexus IS350 nameplate.
Last edited by BippuLexus; 03-27-18 at 03:07 PM.
03-27-18, 03:28 PM
#64
Old thread - as I was too wondering when the 4th gen Lexus IS will be released. As of March 27th, 2018, I'm slowly starting to think its more lending towards a MY2021.
Here's what I'm assuming what will happen:
1) In 2018, Lexus is releasing MY2019 Lexus UX and maybe even the redesign Lexus ES (since the Camry is out and they haven't touched the ES in awhile.)
2) In 2019, they'll probably update the Lexus GS for MY2020 - based on the Toyota Crown.
3) In 2020, they'll likely preview the 4th gen Lexus IS and sell it as a MY2021.
Here's what I'm assuming what will happen:
1) In 2018, Lexus is releasing MY2019 Lexus UX and maybe even the redesign Lexus ES (since the Camry is out and they haven't touched the ES in awhile.)
2) In 2019, they'll probably update the Lexus GS for MY2020 - based on the Toyota Crown.
3) In 2020, they'll likely preview the 4th gen Lexus IS and sell it as a MY2021.
03-27-18, 03:35 PM
#65
Lexus Champion
The new ES will likely be out this fall. It's being caught testing in camo all over the place. I'll bet we see it at an auto show this spring.
03-27-18, 03:47 PM
#66
Lexus Test Driver
There's also the issue of price gap as well. There will be nothing to gap the price of the sedans. There will be nothing priced between the ES and the LS.
This last part is purely my opinions (I don't mean any offense): The current Lexus ES (loaded) runs about 48K sticker. If, if, they actually fuse the GS/ES together, the ES price will no-doubt go up. Lets assume - the 50s thousands for sticker. That means a Lexus ES, which is basically a rebadged Camry that's made in the USA, is going to sell for 50K+. I honestly think sales will tank. No one would buy a 50K rebadged Camry.
03-27-18, 04:11 PM
#67
Are you referring to the story by carscoops? I'll hold out till more new sources report on it because I think its a little strange that Lexus would cancel the GS when its based on the Toyota Crown. The S220 Toyota Crown will be released this year too. Another thing I think is weird is that the Lexus IS will be thrown into a limbo. The Lexus IS always follows the Lexus GS - they share the same platform. Its been like that for 3 generations now. This will leave Lexus IS in this weird spot.
There's also the issue of price gap as well. There will be nothing to gap the price of the sedans. There will be nothing priced between the ES and the LS.
This last part is purely my opinions (I don't mean any offense): The current Lexus ES (loaded) runs about 48K sticker. If, if, they actually fuse the GS/ES together, the ES price will no-doubt go up. Lets assume - the 50s thousands for sticker. That means a Lexus ES, which is basically a rebadged Camry that's made in the USA, is going to sell for 50K+. I honestly think sales will tank. No one would buy a 50K rebadged Camry.
There's also the issue of price gap as well. There will be nothing to gap the price of the sedans. There will be nothing priced between the ES and the LS.
This last part is purely my opinions (I don't mean any offense): The current Lexus ES (loaded) runs about 48K sticker. If, if, they actually fuse the GS/ES together, the ES price will no-doubt go up. Lets assume - the 50s thousands for sticker. That means a Lexus ES, which is basically a rebadged Camry that's made in the USA, is going to sell for 50K+. I honestly think sales will tank. No one would buy a 50K rebadged Camry.
03-27-18, 04:48 PM
#68
Lexus Test Driver
i said this in the GS discussion too, that it would be a bad idea overall just because the ES simply cannot compete with the german midsize rivals without a significant power bump and an advanced AWD system. i also thought sales would plummet because it is definitely going to drive very sporty compared to the one now, which sends all the older people away from it. GS people also will not move over to one just because of the name and FWD, and i would never move up to one if i wanted a bigger car either. i hope that news article was just a rumor again & that the GS will return soon in the future if it took a 1 year hiatus again
Agreed. Majority of the Lexus ES consumers are richer Toyota Avalon consumers, wealthy older folks. If the Lexus ES merge with the GS, the ES will definitely adopt a bit of more sportier drive. There will be a F-Sport version for sure. This will make the ES less desirable to older consumers but not appealing enough for younger buyers.
Same boat as you right here. If I were to "upgrade" my Lexus IS, I won't get a Lexus ES because I feel like its a downgrade. Simply because its a rebadged Camry for 50K+. Definitely - Lexus GS folks will not jump to the Lexus ES crowd.
I hope its a rumor as well. Lexus should keep the GS and work on a way to improving it rather than chopping it to focus on the ES. For me, personally, the only way for me to accept the ES as the executive car is if they drop it off the Camry platform. I just can't justify spending over 50K on something that shares everything with the Camry or Avalon. I'm not saying the Camry is a bad car. I'm just saying a Lexus ES (basically a Camry in a suit) is not worth 50K plus.
03-27-18, 05:01 PM
#69
While I personally would love to the 4th generation Lexus IS to be a "power-house" compared to the competition, I would have to let my reality sink it. It would be better but it won't be faster. The Lexus IS was never a fast car. It was a good looking, comfortable, and relaxing car. IE: The 2nd gen Lexus IS250 (which I previously owned) is an ECO-Box. It was slower than the rest of its competition. And there's nothing wrong with that. It was a nice, relaxing and Eco-friendly car. The Lexus IS350 was faster but it wasn't faster than the G37 and 335i at the time either. As much as Lexus says they want to be more "performance-first", they just don't make performance cars.
When the G37 and 335i made their eventual debut, it became a driver's race with all cars hitting 0-60 in the high 4s and running the 1/4 mile in the low/mid 13s at the 104-105 mph range.
03-27-18, 05:23 PM
#70
Lexus Test Driver
This is not a completely true statement. When the 2nd Gen IS350 made its debut back in 2005, it was the fastest car of its class and was easily 0.5-1.0 second faster from 0-60 than the then-current Infiniti G35 and BMW 330i.
When the G37 and 335i made their eventual debut, it became a driver's race with all cars hitting 0-60 in the high 4s and running the 1/4 mile in the low/mid 13s at the 104-105 mph range.
When the G37 and 335i made their eventual debut, it became a driver's race with all cars hitting 0-60 in the high 4s and running the 1/4 mile in the low/mid 13s at the 104-105 mph range.
Neither the IS350, G37 and 335i were able to hit 0-60 in the high 4s. It was the low 5s.
03-27-18, 05:27 PM
#71
+1 I agree and I'm thinking the same thing. The ES cannot compete with the German Mid-size Rivals (E-Class, 5 Series or A6) without AWD or a power-boost. If the GS was losing the sales battle to the E-Class, 5 Series and A6, the ES won't even touch them. I highly doubt Lexus has a AWD system ready up their sleeves that will be able to compete either.
Agreed. Majority of the Lexus ES consumers are richer Toyota Avalon consumers, wealthy older folks. If the Lexus ES merge with the GS, the ES will definitely adopt a bit of more sportier drive. There will be a F-Sport version for sure. This will make the ES less desirable to older consumers but not appealing enough for younger buyers.
Same boat as you right here. If I were to "upgrade" my Lexus IS, I won't get a Lexus ES because I feel like its a downgrade. Simply because its a rebadged Camry for 50K+. Definitely - Lexus GS folks will not jump to the Lexus ES crowd.
I hope its a rumor as well. Lexus should keep the GS and work on a way to improving it rather than chopping it to focus on the ES. For me, personally, the only way for me to accept the ES as the executive car is if they drop it off the Camry platform. I just can't justify spending over 50K on something that shares everything with the Camry or Avalon. I'm not saying the Camry is a bad car. I'm just saying a Lexus ES (basically a Camry in a suit) is not worth 50K plus.
Agreed. Majority of the Lexus ES consumers are richer Toyota Avalon consumers, wealthy older folks. If the Lexus ES merge with the GS, the ES will definitely adopt a bit of more sportier drive. There will be a F-Sport version for sure. This will make the ES less desirable to older consumers but not appealing enough for younger buyers.
Same boat as you right here. If I were to "upgrade" my Lexus IS, I won't get a Lexus ES because I feel like its a downgrade. Simply because its a rebadged Camry for 50K+. Definitely - Lexus GS folks will not jump to the Lexus ES crowd.
I hope its a rumor as well. Lexus should keep the GS and work on a way to improving it rather than chopping it to focus on the ES. For me, personally, the only way for me to accept the ES as the executive car is if they drop it off the Camry platform. I just can't justify spending over 50K on something that shares everything with the Camry or Avalon. I'm not saying the Camry is a bad car. I'm just saying a Lexus ES (basically a Camry in a suit) is not worth 50K plus.
03-27-18, 07:13 PM
#72
drives cars
I think with the new Crown having been recently revealed, it won't be too long before the Gen-5 GS is revealed. I agree - even though the GS's sales have been slow, with the new platforms and tech available to Lexus, they are going to try and fight back against the rival midsize cars - as they did with the LS.
03-27-18, 10:48 PM
#73
Lexus Test Driver
yep my words exactly, i just don’t see lexus’ future with the midsize sedan segment going well without the GS’ return in 2020. personally, i’m even worried for the next gen IS too i really want them to nail it because i don’t want to leave the brand even though the G20 BMW 3 series does look promising
If you don't mind me asking, what are you worried about for the new IS? For me, I'm not too worried about the 4th gen IS. I'm not worried because I believe Lexus is likely to keep it conservative in terms of performance. It would be nice if Lexus stepped out of the comfort box and made the Lexus IS350 in Infiniti Q50 3.0T Silver Sport performance range. But... we know what Lexus is like. Its likely they'll keep the Turbo 4 the same. They might give us a IS350 with a detuned TTV6 rated at maybe anywhere from 311HP to 350HP to keep the 350 nameplate. I'm betting they won't change the 2GT-FKS 311HP on the IS350 till maybe the 4th gen refresh though. They'll likely finally have LED turn signals for all models; its annoying how US-Spec IS don't get LED turn signals when the rest of the world does. They likely give it the new updated LFA-Gauges, HUD, and maybe 360 camera.
I might sound not that hopeful for the Lexus IS350 but I'll be happy if they just made it middle-of-the-pack performance with good quality and luxury.
I think with the new Crown having been recently revealed, it won't be too long before the Gen-5 GS is revealed. I agree - even though the GS's sales have been slow, with the new platforms and tech available to Lexus, they are going to try and fight back against the rival midsize cars - as they did with the LS.
03-28-18, 06:05 AM
#74
Lexus Test Driver
They might make the next IS a tweener car and get bigger than the current gen. If it's bigger, it could replace both the IS and GS as the sport sedan for Lexus. If it doesn't have at least 350hp, I'm going Audi anyway.
