arentz07

A minor nitpick. The IS and 3-series have virtually identical exterior dimensions (width and height are the same, the IS is about 2 inches longer though), but the 3-series is slightly larger in terms of passenger space. So one would think the IS more sporty and driver-focused... which, it is, fortunately.

BippuLexus

The Lexus IS will not be going away. Lexus removing the Lexus IS is suicide.

Because if they remove the Lexus IS along with the GS - that makes the Lexus ES the entry-level option. That also means Lexus is also removing the RC since the RC is based on the IS. This leads to Lexus folding versus the competition of the 3 Series, 4 Series, C-Class, E-Class, A4, A5, S4, S5 and etc...
The Lexus ES F-Sport is not a replacement for the RWD Lexus IS nor Lexus GS.

When you do that - you are committing brand suicide. Lexus will probably end up being an Acura or worst.


Agreed with you on the design but you lost me after that.

The Lexus IS lost sales the last two years, not because of power, its because its the typical trend of a refresh model. If you check the history of Lexus IS sales, the 2G Lexus IS refresh experienced the same thing. Sales dipped after refresh. I see two reasons why this trend exist for the Lexus IS.
Power isn't a reason either. The Acura TLX gets more sales than the Lexus IS but the Acura TLX (both engines) is clearly more under-powered than the Lexus IS. Lastly - the 3G Lexus IS was able to sell as much units as the 2006 2G Lexus IS with a 10 year old engine. I don't think power really plays a factor here.

The cars you listed: The GT Stinger, C43 AMG and the M2 don't even compete with the Lexus IS350... Especially not the M2. The M2 is in a different segment completely. The GT Stinger and C43 AMG is the only two that competes in the same segment as the Lexus IS but the Lexus IS doesn't have a Lexus IS(400) or something to compete with those vehicles. Even if Lexus introduces a IS400 with TTV6 and I'm hoping they do, that version of the IS isn't the money matter. Lexus IS sells the most copies of the Lexus IS250 and now Lexus IS300 Turbo. Having a TTV6 Lexus IS will only please the enthusiast, not the mass market.

I also never understood why people think the Lexus IS and GS is on an "old" platform. I have heard people call it ancient too. It just doesn't make sense when the platform (New N Platform) is still relatively new.

arentz07

Most of the C-class and 3-series models I see rolling around are C 300, 320i and 330i. Most ISs I see are 300 (AWD here, it's hard to find a 300 RWD in KCMO). A 340i is a downright rare sight, and an IS 350 is only slightly more common. So I agree with you on that. For me personally though, I definitely want a more powerful option. Besides, you could argue the IS 350 really competes with the 330i, not the 340i. I think that's where Lexus in general is missing models - the "almost-F" segment. There's no C 43 AMG or S4/S5 equivalent.

BippuLexus

I definitely want a more powerful option too. I'm hoping for a Lexus IS400 with a TTV6 so I trade up.

I actually do argue that: the Lexus IS350 competes with the 330i. I believe the Lexus doesn't have a car that competes with the 340i, C43 AMG (basically C350/C400 or whatever they want to call it), and Q50 3.0T RS).
Agreed. Lexus is missing that "near F/almost F" segment. There is a gap there. It would be amazing if Lexus would do Lexus IS300, IS350, IS400, IS-F. Here's hoping!

taktiks

It's not that I think it's ancient, it's not, but it isn't aging well for such a new platform. They've managed to get a great chassis out of the GSF, but every trim level below that just falls short to me. The 350 is a great base powertrain to compete with other base model mid-size luxury cars in the segment, but there's not enough width in their GS lineup to truly compete. It's base model or top of the line with not much in between. I guess I should have focused more on the powertrain, rather than the platform itself, but they put them together, and it just doesn't compete well with the European competition. It is a new platform, but they're using old engines with new transmissions set up for fuel economy instead of performance (or the same old ones in the case of the AWD models).

I was actually on the fence about picking up a 15' IS350 or a 16' GS350 (both in F-sport trim) since the weight and price is so damn close. The IS only won out because I needed something smaller for city parking and the color options available to me at the time.

BippuLexus

Oh no no. I didn't say you called it ancient. It was reference to other people I have seen (especially on YouTube).

But I do agree - Lexus needs something in the middle and more power-train options essentially. Like what Arentz and I was talking about - the Lexus IS needs a top range model to better compete with the Germans. Unfortunately - that's one of the things about buying Japanese brands. They are all very slow moving with engine changes. A good example of this is the Acura TLX - it still uses a under-powered V6 that doesn't even make 300HP. The Acura TLX is geared more towards economy than performance as well.

taktiks

It seems to be a trend with Japanese luxury. They strive for perfection, but once they do it, they are all reluctant to change anything. This constantly leaves them behind the curve when compared to their rivals in almost every segment. It shows when the F models all share the same V8 with little difference between them, including the LC500.

I actually appreciate the fact that their model line hasn't become insanely bloated like that of Mercedes and BMW, with them adding models to fill gaps that nobody was asking for in the first place, but they definitely need to broaden out the existing model lines. Detuning the 3.5L V6 and calling it the IS300 isn't a step in the right direction in my eyes.

BippuLexus

I think its believe that Japanese luxury brand refusal to change engine quickly is a beneficiary to their reliability reputation. If you keep using an engine that is long and proven, reliability ratings goes up.

I agree. I do like how organized the Lexus line-up is but it does need a performance variations. Hopefully they bring back the IS-F. Definitely - MB and BMW's line-up is overdone. They offer too much of everything - especially when some of those things don't even sell. I remember when the 6 Series was introduced to be a 5 Series coupe. But then they decided to add a 6 Series 4-Door Gran Coupe, which is basically a 5 Series with a sloping roof-line. MB and BMW needs to trim off some of their lines, in my opinion.

Solara350

Exactly what i want to say in reply ya the F-sport badge ,aren't we competitor with AMG Sline M series V-sport A-spec and Red-Sport ? so what is F-sport on Lexus for ? just the name ? the Nismo on Nissan has failed because of this !

Power and Suspension/Brake plays a big factor in Sport car industry guys ! other competitor has Brembo Brake even Honda Civic Type R does, they has better Sway bar Strut Tower Bar and Loud Exhaust + high performance bushing etc. Hey my friend asked me What's good about Fsport of Lexus IS350 ? the true is = nothing just cosmetic (unless you pay 3000$ for exhaust 2000$ for swaybar 1000$ for lowering spring 500$ for RR-racing LCA performance bushings) 2000$ for RR-Tune Canadian $$, the lies are = ya big brake like Brembo big swaybar and bushing + AVS blah blah.

Everyone's different point of view but in my perspective this is why they loss sale and they wants to Discontinue IS/GS lineup

PS: i was like OUCH when i heard this lol ya Discontinue IS and i will keep this car hahaha i love driving a Discontinue car production line. become rare in the future

arentz07

WRT the brakes and the F Sport name, at least the F Sport high-friction pads are good. Still my favorite braking experience of anything I have driven. They feel responsive but appropriately so for this car. I'm not sure if the GS has similar pads available.

Burrcold

jnesss

EXE46

An IS400 would indeed be nice, to go head to head with the Q50 Red Sport especially now that the IS350 has an LSD, just need a TTV6 option.

BippuLexus

What? The Lexus "F-Sport" is not a competitor to the AMG, M, S, or Red Sport. The "F-Sport" is the competitor to the AMG design pack, M Design Pack and S-Line Black optics Pack, which are all design appearance modifications of their cars.
The IS-F, RC-F and GS-F are the competitors to the AMG, M, and S.
Currently - Lexus doesn't have a competitor for the Red Sport.

To ask what's good about a Lexus IS350 F-Sport is similar to asking what's good about a BMW 330i M-Design Pack? or Audi A4 Black optics pack? Or MB C-Class AMG-Line Pack?

JDR76

The F Sport package is an appearance and handling package. It's really not that hard to understand.