jlo0109

I wonder if Toyota/Lexus understand the core issue here isn't because of the shift in the market desire of the crossover. If you look at BMW and MB, they still sell the bazooka out of the 3 series and C class. The problem here, I think many have highlighted very well, is that Toyota/Lexus has not had a significant breakthrough since like 10 years ago. One thing worth noting out of all the issues people have raised is probably the engine and the inability of tuning them. Toyota/Lexus must understand that as consumers, we love the ability to customize and tune our JDM cars. While styling and other interior features may be subjective, the engine and tuning are the two main reasons why Toyota/Lexus has been seeing a gradual decline in sales across all of their vehicle lines. Precisely, Toyota/Lexus stayed true to their values and methodology behind their builds, but at the same time others have morphed into the next generation platform which is pretty much force induction. Can you possibly imagine a detune version of a inline six turbo pushing 350hp for the IS350 with possibilities of mild bolt-ons that can easily achieve 400whp? Or, a twin turbo V8 in a GSF where a simple tune can bring the hp range to the north of 600? You watch and see how their sales double and triple...

BippuLexus

I see where you are coming from but I respectfully disagree with your statement.

The issues people have with the inability to tune to them is strictly a car enthusiasts criticism. The average consumer will never modified their car - let alone even pop that hood. Cars are designed and made for the average consumer because that's where the money is. Car companies, like Toyota where profit is king to them, they don't care about the small percentage of car enthusiasts that complain the Lexus IS is too slow. The thing is - there sales won't triple with performance engines that can be easily modified to perform better. Their car enthusiasts market-share will increase, sure, but that's an insanely small percent of people and the average consumer won't care.

The problem with Lexus IS sales compared to the MB C300 and BMW 3 Series is purely the badge and the good lease deals from the Germans. When the 3G Lexus IS first came out in 2014, it came out with new tech, LFA gauges and offered more features than the 3 Series. But yet - the BMW 3 Series at the time (2 years old already) - sold double the amount of the Lexus IS.
Majority of the MB C300 and BMW 3 Series that are sold are base models, stripper models with no options, or minimally packaged vehicles. This on top of the insane lease deals. My local BMW dealer offers a stripper 2018 330i in the range of roughly $200-$300 per month, lease. That's where majority of C300 and 3 Series sale profit come from - its the base/stripper models. I think the take-rate of the 340i is insanely low compared to the 320i and 330i.

True. Some Toyota/Lexus vehicles have dipped in sales but a majority of them are still high in sales numbers. Off the top of my head - Camry, Avalon, ES, RAV4, 4Runner, NX, RX, Corolla, and etc... are still pulling insane numbers of profit for them. While relevant to the topic: The Lexus IS is performing where its usually is. Starts off with 50K/unit per year sales (same as 2006 Lexus IS) and that's with a 10+ year old engine. Sales trend tends to dip for the Lexus IS after refresh - note 2G Lexus IS.

Burrcold

I would never have thought the IS would be killed off, since it was the model that introduced a younger demographic and price point into the dealerships. Now with the UX coming (most likely will undercut the IS in pricing), and the huge shift to anything CUV/SUV, that NEED for the entry level sedan is just not there. People buy the 3 series and C Class because they are attainable uber luxury (not saying that they are in fact uber luxury), and it allows people to say I have a Benz or a BMW, and 99% of people don't ask "oh what kind or what model of 3 series or even what year". Lexus as a nameplate is almost there as well...kind of stuck in between the Germans/Europeans on the right and the other Asian and American luxury on the left. So it's not that the IS not capable or needs more engine choices, or whatever....it's the market trend away from sedans, and the not-quite-there brand cachet. Smart people buy Lexus, but most people are not that smart.

1Louder

I don't know why an IS (with Lexus reliability) with 350+ hp wouldn't sell like crazy. Never mind mod ability - make it a 3-series killer off the lot. Just keep it under $50k.

Burrcold

Solara350

a lot of YOung Buyers gets CLA250 or AMG C45 version of CLA, and the price is CHEAP, MSRP in Canada $ is 33,695$ based , 35,695$ 4Matic and 51,395 $ for CLA AMG C45 , 51k$ CAD they can get a Mercedes AMG bro think about that, you know when Mercedes or BMW comes with a badge like M Series or AMG , they are serious about it, unlike Japanese Cars, people says TOyota Lexus reliable etc but as i've seen so far they are loosing sale, the Asian people now telling me to get Mercedes isn't that strange ?

Solara350

I see what you mean, good pointing that out ! you're right ISF RCF GSF are competitor with M2-3-4 S or AMG but we don't have an IS-F for current IS series, AMG CLA 45 is cheaper than IS350 Fsport and it has more power and handling, regardless of reliable for now, lets compare with prices and production line, RC-F brand new 97k$ Canadian are you seriously ? IS350 F-sport AWD 66k $ Cad, have you driven a Mercedes CLS lineup or an M2-3 ? 2018 BMW M3 MSRP is 65k$ CAD

• AMG C 43 4MATIC Coupe
• $59,900* MSRP
• Engine AMG-enhanced 3.0L V6 biturbo

• 
• Acceleration0-100 km4.7 sec
• Net power@ 5,500-6,000 rpm362 hp
• Net torque@ 2,000-4,200 rpm384 lb-ft

are we missing something here ? probably MB CEO understands their drivers more unlike Lexus ? that is the C Class AMG package like F-sport, you're probably talking about the old lineup with M-sport and AMG sport. No more bro, Bi-turbo now, MB CEO said he is trying to get the price cut down as much as they can for YOUNG BUYERS. that is why on TORONTO CANADA ROAD and HIGHWAY, all i see is MERCEDES and yes that's C43 Coupe is my next car probably in couple year when my new Condo is settled if im luck a Mercedes CLS 550 baby

BippuLexus

Very true. There's a good chunk of MB and BMW drivers that buy the base model just to say they drive a MB and BMW. Its like you said, its likely no one will ask about the specs, trims or options.

Exactly what Burrcold said - majority of sales aren't in output models. The base model/lower trim models are the highest sellers. This is why the Lexus IS250, 200T or 300 is the highest sold form of the IS. If there is a IS400 with a TTV6, it'll definitely be a niche sale.

The AMG CLA 45 is not cheaper than the Lexus IS350 F-Sport.

The AMG CLA 45 starts at $50,400 base excluding destination. The Lexus IS350 F-Sport starts $45,025 and reaches 50ish thousand dollars loaded. The Lexus IS350 F-Sport is way cheaper than the AMG CLA 45.

And besides - the AMG CLA 45 doesn't compete with the Lexus IS350 F-Sport. The Lexus IS doesn't have a competitor for this segment.

Burrcold

1Louder

Young buyers are not known for their wise car-buying decisions. :-)

Those badges are well and good until you need a $3000 service just for pads and rotors. I own both a 16 IS and a 15 BMW X5. I can actually work on my IS even with amateur "car guy" skills. The BMW apparently needs expert attention from mythical Bavarian elves earning $500/hr. ;-)

Solara350

My bad, the 2018 M3 i checked is .com its USD$ and the Lexus.ca i checked mark the "including tax and freight.

CLA45 AMG its an AMG They don't have AMG 1 2 or 3 AMG including everything they need in there just ADD ON and IS350 is an F-sport CLA45 got more horses more toys, they have AMG Exhaust sound nice as well, C43 also the same toys with couple thousand $ adding, what do we get from IS350 F-sport ? a ODO Cluster ? a grill ? and rims ? they don't even including Sway bar strut bar and Sport bushing.or F_sport Exhaust and Intake, have you checked an AMG Mercedes ? they have much more toys, regardless if they are competitor lets talk about money we spend$ , where are the fun to drive ? in Canad if i want to add F-sport exhaust, they don't have, sway bar strut bar they don't have, now some dealer has F-sport Intake for 700$+

I'm not hating Lexus i'd like to state out the facts, Lexus parts are not cheap labor isn't cheap either, i just got a quote from Lexus Downtown, Tommy quoted me the RADIO UNIT for IS350 costs 8,486$ CAD, Hey i bought Lexus for RELIABLE

Solara350

lol agreed, we can get them for cheaper just come by our shop if you in Toronto lol just kinda pissed off when my friend says F-sport is just the Badge the grill the cluster and rims, they are no different to regular IS350, this girl friend of a friend got the C300, man i test drive with her beside, the car and her smell so good and drives so smooth damn its the reason why i bought Lexus, you're right those guys are very expensive at Dealership

Solara350

Check CLA 45 at https://www.mercedes-benz.ca/en/vehi...lass/cla/coupe
Check IS350 AWD https://www.lexus.ca/lexus/en/config..._AWD#/packages

CLA45 MSRP 52,300$ CANADIAN . Lexus IS350 AWD F-sport is 56,000$ Canadian

Burrcold

RRRacing

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