3IS Simple/"Dumb" Questions Thread - Ask away and get answers!
07-09-18, 07:24 AM
#31
Pole Position
This is probably a dumb question, and I am pretty sure I know the answer, just want to see what you guys think.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/LjJ8Zp1K9aSUjikf7
So I was going for a spirited drive yesterday (hey, it was Sunday after all
) and washed the car afterward. I noticed the brakes were pretty hot. While cleaning the wheels, I sprayed water onto the brake disc of the front right wheel. The water instantly turned to steam.
So I showed this to a friend and he said "maybe the brakes are warped?" I said, no, it was because I was actually using them
. So I figure it's normal for them to get hot if used a lot in a short period of time. Any thoughts, confirmations?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/LjJ8Zp1K9aSUjikf7
So I was going for a spirited drive yesterday (hey, it was Sunday after all
) and washed the car afterward. I noticed the brakes were pretty hot. While cleaning the wheels, I sprayed water onto the brake disc of the front right wheel. The water instantly turned to steam.So I showed this to a friend and he said "maybe the brakes are warped?" I said, no, it was because I was actually using them
. So I figure it's normal for them to get hot if used a lot in a short period of time. Any thoughts, confirmations?
07-09-18, 07:44 AM
#32
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Yep! It's probably fine but I wouldn't make a habit of directing water at a hot brake rotor. It is meant to get wet but if it's getting wet naturally (like driving in the rain) it's probably not going to be quite as hot before being shocked with cold water.
07-09-18, 07:50 AM
#33
drives cars
I don't particularly like doing getting them wet, since they get pretty rusty-looking.
07-09-18, 07:57 AM
#34
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Common problems?
Off top of my head:
2014 250/350 battery draining problem. It's apparently fixed with an updated part/tsb? I'm not sure. Someone else can chime in
Accelerated Inner tire wear on front tires. Normal on 2IS and 3IS. All models including F Sport and F models.
F Sport front pad and rotors fast wear. 10-18,000 miles is average. Normal. High performance/high wear. Some install alternative pads to get low wear, low dust.
Off top of my head:
2014 250/350 battery draining problem. It's apparently fixed with an updated part/tsb? I'm not sure. Someone else can chime in
Accelerated Inner tire wear on front tires. Normal on 2IS and 3IS. All models including F Sport and F models.
F Sport front pad and rotors fast wear. 10-18,000 miles is average. Normal. High performance/high wear. Some install alternative pads to get low wear, low dust.
07-09-18, 09:22 AM
#35
Dunno about adding more toe-in. That would add wear. The tire is alreading leaning on it's edge and toe'd in on the factory alignment. So it's basically already sitting on the inside, already turned inward, while rolling down the road straight. And the dealer suggests turning it even more inward?
0 toe is optimal for wear under all scenarios.
Maybe the dealer meant camber? (as far as the pressure on the outside in turns)
None of that makes any sense. I'd take dealer advice with a grain of salt. They're usually not that knowledgeable and give very generic "what i heard at the auto parts store" or "things my granpappy used to say" or "things I heard at the gym" kind of advice, in my experience.
Anyway here's an idea of what the inner wear looked like on my old fronts.
I've put 5,000 miles on my new tires w/ 0 toe custom alignment. No noticeable accelerated wear. If they do though, I may just bite the bullet and get aftermarket CABs. They're wildly expensive though.
Anyway lets save this tire talk for the tire thread =) Lets let people ask their questions!
0 toe is optimal for wear under all scenarios.
Maybe the dealer meant camber? (as far as the pressure on the outside in turns)
None of that makes any sense. I'd take dealer advice with a grain of salt. They're usually not that knowledgeable and give very generic "what i heard at the auto parts store" or "things my granpappy used to say" or "things I heard at the gym" kind of advice, in my experience.
Anyway here's an idea of what the inner wear looked like on my old fronts.
I've put 5,000 miles on my new tires w/ 0 toe custom alignment. No noticeable accelerated wear. If they do though, I may just bite the bullet and get aftermarket CABs. They're wildly expensive though.
Anyway lets save this tire talk for the tire thread =) Lets let people ask their questions!
In terms of Static conditions the negative camber loads the inside edge of the tire. When rolling forward zero toe says the two tires on that axle are both pointed the same direction and have minimal rolling resistance. Toe-in is not camber and camber is not toe-in. These are separate items.
That said normal scrub from turning in a parking lot can do more damage to the tires edges than say a small amount of toe in like 0.08° (25" dia tire) over 10,000 miles.
Note: excessive Toe-in can lead to outer edge wear while excessive toe-out can lead to inner edge wear.
In short if camber is negative and you have say 1/32" of toe-in (-0.08°) these two can work together to minimize tire wear across the whole tire.
Tire pressure, toe, and camber in that order are the heavy hitters of accelerated tire wear.
Underinflating wears the outer edges.
Overinflating wears the center.
A highway car with zero toe and properly inflated tires can get good wear. A grocery getter doing parking lot action can scrub the edges right off the tires.
What I'm say is pay attention to how and where your tires wear. Tire pressure matters. Highway cars can run lower pressures than city cars as long as they are inflated for the load and don't make heat.
City cars can stand to run higher pressures up front to preserve the tires edges. That said a bulk of us run around solo and the rear tires are over inflated and blow the center out. Watch and adjust as needed. Period!
When it comes time for an alignment do your best to let the tech see your old tires before adjustments are made. Tiny adjustments can make 10 to 20,000 mile difference in wear. These adjustments must be tailored to how the car is loaded and how the driver uses the car.
07-09-18, 09:31 AM
#36
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Not sure on what you are disagreeing with. Can you be specific?
We are specifically referring to notorious inner tire wear on the front tires of the 3IS (and 2IS) as being caused by dynamic toe change.
I recommended a more neutral (0 toe) to mitigate excess wear from static negative toe as the factory has negative toe dialed in.
Are you disagreeing with that?
We are specifically referring to notorious inner tire wear on the front tires of the 3IS (and 2IS) as being caused by dynamic toe change.
I recommended a more neutral (0 toe) to mitigate excess wear from static negative toe as the factory has negative toe dialed in.
Are you disagreeing with that?
07-09-18, 11:26 AM
#37
OEM camber is negative (~ -0.7°). Toe-in/toe-out can go either way. We both agree that any deviation from a zero toe condition can increase wear as it induces tire scrub.
However, because braking causes so much toe-out (deflection) and coupled with weight transfer it takes away tread from the inner edges.
By adding a small amount of toe-in, you can mitigate that wear over the life of the tire and get better wear across the face of the entire tire.
Bottom line is if you wear into the cords the tire is junk. Whether its at 5000 mi or 50,000 mi. By adding toe-in on a car with negative camber, you preserve that inner edge and can get more life from the whole tire than by running a zero toe.
PS - I'm running IS-F LCAB with roughly -0.05° toe... 15,000 mi and wear is completely even across the tires.
Mix is 60% city / 40% highway.
What do you mean by " the factory has static negative toe"?
However, because braking causes so much toe-out (deflection) and coupled with weight transfer it takes away tread from the inner edges.
By adding a small amount of toe-in, you can mitigate that wear over the life of the tire and get better wear across the face of the entire tire.
Bottom line is if you wear into the cords the tire is junk. Whether its at 5000 mi or 50,000 mi. By adding toe-in on a car with negative camber, you preserve that inner edge and can get more life from the whole tire than by running a zero toe.
PS - I'm running IS-F LCAB with roughly -0.05° toe... 15,000 mi and wear is completely even across the tires.
Mix is 60% city / 40% highway.
What do you mean by " the factory has static negative toe"?
Last edited by 2013FSport; 07-09-18 at 11:32 AM.
07-09-18, 12:28 PM
#38
drives cars
OEM camber is negative (~ -0.7°). Toe-in/toe-out can go either way. We both agree that any deviation from a zero toe condition can increase wear as it induces tire scrub.
However, because braking causes so much toe-out (deflection) and coupled with weight transfer it takes away tread from the inner edges.
By adding a small amount of toe-in, you can mitigate that wear over the life of the tire and get better wear across the face of the entire tire.
Bottom line is if you wear into the cords the tire is junk. Whether its at 5000 mi or 50,000 mi. By adding toe-in on a car with negative camber, you preserve that inner edge and can get more life from the whole tire than by running a zero toe.
PS - I'm running IS-F LCAB with roughly -0.05° toe... 15,000 mi and wear is completely even across the tires.
Mix is 60% city / 40% highway.
What do you mean by " the factory has static negative toe"?
However, because braking causes so much toe-out (deflection) and coupled with weight transfer it takes away tread from the inner edges.
By adding a small amount of toe-in, you can mitigate that wear over the life of the tire and get better wear across the face of the entire tire.
Bottom line is if you wear into the cords the tire is junk. Whether its at 5000 mi or 50,000 mi. By adding toe-in on a car with negative camber, you preserve that inner edge and can get more life from the whole tire than by running a zero toe.
PS - I'm running IS-F LCAB with roughly -0.05° toe... 15,000 mi and wear is completely even across the tires.
Mix is 60% city / 40% highway.
What do you mean by " the factory has static negative toe"?
But yeah I also agree to an extent with E46CT that this probably won't work if you're on the highway a lot. Seems like, just from a common-sense perspective, it'd be much more efficient at higher speeds to just have the tires pointed straight ahead or very nearly straight. And what the tech told me is pretty similar - he said that he was trying to make the tires point inward, or more straight, under braking instead of outward like factory alignment would do. And of course it is still within the normal range.
TBH I don't fully trust everything my service guys say at the dealer, but so far they have been right about most things.
If anything, I do think the car feels like it tramlines a bit more now, but it also feels a bit less touchy at highway speeds. Turning seems the same overall. The tramlining might just be due to tire wear. Last I checked a couple months ago, I was down to 5/32".
07-09-18, 12:36 PM
#39
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
OEM camber is negative (~ -0.7°). Toe-in/toe-out can go either way. We both agree that any deviation from a zero toe condition can increase wear as it induces tire scrub.
However, because braking causes so much toe-out (deflection) and coupled with weight transfer it takes away tread from the inner edges.
By adding a small amount of toe-in, you can mitigate that wear over the life of the tire and get better wear across the face of the entire tire.
Bottom line is if you wear into the cords the tire is junk. Whether its at 5000 mi or 50,000 mi. By adding toe-in on a car with negative camber, you preserve that inner edge and can get more life from the whole tire than by running a zero toe.
PS - I'm running IS-F LCAB with roughly -0.05° toe... 15,000 mi and wear is completely even across the tires.
Mix is 60% city / 40% highway.
What do you mean by " the factory has static negative toe"?
However, because braking causes so much toe-out (deflection) and coupled with weight transfer it takes away tread from the inner edges.
By adding a small amount of toe-in, you can mitigate that wear over the life of the tire and get better wear across the face of the entire tire.
Bottom line is if you wear into the cords the tire is junk. Whether its at 5000 mi or 50,000 mi. By adding toe-in on a car with negative camber, you preserve that inner edge and can get more life from the whole tire than by running a zero toe.
PS - I'm running IS-F LCAB with roughly -0.05° toe... 15,000 mi and wear is completely even across the tires.
Mix is 60% city / 40% highway.
What do you mean by " the factory has static negative toe"?
What I meant is that from what I remember from the alignment spec sheet, our cars (as most cars in this class do) call for toe in so they're more stable at highway speeds. As you know off-center toe (usually toe in) plus negative camber is what will cause the wear on the inners and wear in general. I know this from owning 7 BMWs all with softish control arm bushings and factory toe in. The soft CABs only make it worse as a ton of deflection happens in the name of compliance and comfort.
Anyways back on track, the short story is if you own a 3IS, inner tire wear will occur and fast. It's not good, however it is normal. Please lets let others ask some different questions.
07-09-18, 12:38 PM
#40
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I'll follow back up on my question about the battery draining problem on the 2014s. Was this an issue that occurred across the board or just to a select few? Was it resolved? As the owner of a 2014, I am wanting to know what to look out for.
07-09-18, 12:43 PM
#41
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
^Good question. I honestly don't know. My friend wants a '14 IS350 so I'd be interested to know what the cause was and if it's now fixed.
07-09-18, 01:28 PM
#42
Negative camber wears the inside as does Toe-out. Combined and you have a tire eating machine!
**Excessive** toe-in wears the outside.
These cars have negative camber. Adding toe-in will preserve your tires life. Installing firmer LCAB and small amount toe-in leads to near zero wear when coupled with the correct tire pressure for your use and driving style.
07-09-18, 01:59 PM
#43
What I read is that only those who repeatedly complained AND their car tested positive for excessive current draw while in an off state got the MPX computer replaced under warranty. There are many threads on this.
07-09-18, 02:36 PM
#44
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Last round. ^^ That is not true!
Negative camber wears the inside as does Toe-out. Combined and you have a tire eating machine!
**Excessive** toe-in wears the outside.
These cars have negative camber. Adding toe-in will preserve your tires life. Installing firmer LCAB and small amount toe-in leads to near zero wear when coupled with the correct tire pressure for your use and driving style.
Negative camber wears the inside as does Toe-out. Combined and you have a tire eating machine!
**Excessive** toe-in wears the outside.
These cars have negative camber. Adding toe-in will preserve your tires life. Installing firmer LCAB and small amount toe-in leads to near zero wear when coupled with the correct tire pressure for your use and driving style.
I never said toe out doesn't cause tire wear. Any non-neutral position can (in any direction)
I've ran my BMWs with -2 to -2.5 camber and .10 toe in the past. Replaced Michelin Pilot Super Sports every 20k.
Our cars have a unique problem though. Normal sporty car tire wear coupled with extra dynamic wear. I am saying if you want to mitigate this extra dynamic (inner wear), adding toe in for a net total negative toe (or positive) isn't going to help. Last thing you want to do is turn the tire when it's trying to go straight. Friction is the enemy here.
Onto other topics now.
07-09-18, 02:45 PM
#45
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It spanned lexus and yoda. The MPX communications computer was not timing out and going to sleep.
What I read is that only those who repeatedly complained AND their car tested positive for excessive current draw while in an off state got the MPX computer replaced under warranty. There are many threads on this.
What I read is that only those who repeatedly complained AND their car tested positive for excessive current draw while in an off state got the MPX computer replaced under warranty. There are many threads on this.
did the MPX computer have issues in only some cars or was it widespread?
did the MPX computer replacement resolve the issue?
for other 2014 owners out there I suppose my question is: did it happen to you?
thanks,
mazen