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Automakers are making their cars sportier as that's the only incentive for buyers to keep buying them vs. crossovers/SUVs. Note TRD Camry, TRD Avalon. This can only be good news for the next IS. It'll probably be ratcheted up to max sportiness to attract people who want cars because of their sportiness vs. heavy/tall vehicles.
As said, Lexus has a bit of a problem on their hands... here's a quick photo I took from the LA auto show:
Automakers are making their cars sportier as that's the only incentive for buyers to keep buying them vs. crossovers/SUVs. Note TRD Camry, TRD Avalon. This can only be good news for the next IS. It'll probably be ratcheted up to max sportiness to attract people who want cars because of their sportiness vs. heavy/tall vehicles.
As said, Lexus has a bit of a problem on their hands... here's a quick photo I took from the LA auto show:
Disagree. The sporty nature of a sedan isn't the reason why people still buy sedans. If it was, Lexus ES sales were be dirt; similarity all generations of the Camry besides the current one would be dirt sales too. The sporty design is just more of the new design language trend that's going on in the overall industry. This is why there is sporty design SUV, CUV and stuff too. Its all because the new design trend.
Besides - sedans are on a downtrend in terms of general sales anyways.
Don't think Lexus ever really cared about the 3 Series sales competition. Lexus will never catch the 3 Series in terms of sales with the IS and they know that. Its not because the BMW 3 Series is a better car. Its because BMW sells tons and tons of 3 Series with amazing lease deals. They also sell their 3 Series to corporations and rental car companies. How do you expect the Lexus IS to top that when the Lexus IS isn't sold to corporations as fleets or rental cars? How you expect the Lexus IS to top that when the Lexus IS isn't mass produce to the level of the 3 Series? The 3 Series is made in Mexico while the Lexus IS is made in Japan and has to wait for boat shipment to the USA.
This is why I believe Lexus will never make a Lexus IS400 (TTV6) to compete with the BMW M340i. They won't get enough returns for the production. As a car enthusiast, we would obviously would love a Lexus IS400 (TTV6) but it will never sell. People that tend to blow over 50K-60K on a performance car don't usually think Japanese.
I really hope the TT V6 sees itself in an IS in some shape or form. I wouldn't even be that upset if the F version has that engine, hopefully tuned for higher performance in that application - I mean 416 horses isn't bad to start with, but it's not as much as the current RC F. V6 engines have always been a part of the IS lineup, so having one in a modern F version would be interesting and appropriate.
That said, the LC is still pretty new and has a V-8, so I am keeping hope alive.
I really hope the TT V6 sees itself in an IS in some shape or form. I wouldn't even be that upset if the F version has that engine, hopefully tuned for higher performance in that application - I mean 416 horses isn't bad to start with, but it's not as much as the current RC F. V6 engines have always been a part of the IS lineup, so having one in a modern F version would be interesting and appropriate.
That said, the LC is still pretty new and has a V-8, so I am keeping hope alive.
Anyway, something something 2019 IS...
I'm predicting it'll be an IS-F with the TTV6. That's a good way to make use of the TTV6 while leaving the reliable and popular V6 for the masses. The IS-F needs to return too.
Toyota killing the LS V8 for a TTV6 doesn't mean they'll kill offer their most popular NA V6. They know the American market likes the V6 over Turbos I4s. This is one of the reason why the Toyota Camry and Lexus ES stayed NA and kept the V6. If they care about the money, the V6 in the Lexus IS is here to stay.
The IS is certainly not as important as the LS, besides the IS not not even a big seller. The LS buyer would have preferred an NA V8, not a turbo V6. The IS is not as special as you seem to think. The 3 series has a turbo and it is the best seller in the group. If Toyota killed the 3.5 liter V6 and replace it with a turbo, the few enthusiast's of the IS will still buy it. It's not like you have any option elsewhere unless you don't mind downgrading to a non luxury car.
I personally think maybe they should go in a different direction than just slapping in a bigger engine. Is anyone else irked by the fact that the Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti 4 cylinder turbo with 280hp is actually faster than the current 3IS with 311hp? The IS350 runs the 1/4 mile at 14 seconds while the lower powered Giulia does it in 13.6. That's a significant difference that can definitely be felt by the driver. The Giulia is lighter, but not a lot lighter. The difference is the torque and drivetrain. The Giulia gets significantly better fuel economy too. 30mpg on the highway, verified by press and youtubers. When I try hypermiling I get mid 20's at best!! With the Giulia you can have your cake and eat it too. I really think the Ti will be my next car in a few years...CPO of course hahaha
The IS is certainly not as important as the LS, besides the IS not not even a big seller. The LS buyer would have preferred an NA V8, not a turbo V6. The IS is not as special as you seem to think. The 3 series has a turbo and it is the best seller in the group. If Toyota killed the 3.5 liter V6 and replace it with a turbo, the few enthusiast's of the IS will still buy it. It's not like you have any option elsewhere unless you don't mind downgrading to a non luxury car.
I never stated the Lexus IS is an important car for Lexus. The Lexus IS is pretty much the entry level Lexus - that's it.
True. The LS buyer would have preferred an NA V8 over the TTV6. Just because they dropped the V8 for a TTV6 doesn't mean they'll drop the V6 for a Turbo I4. My point is that 2GR V6 is a working horse. It has a proven reliability record and Lexus knows their main demographic aren't the power hungry type. What's happening right now is, us enthusiast which makes up 1% of the demographic of car buyers, is pushing asking for a performance engine on a car sold to the masses. That just won't happen. Toyota's business model don't revolve around pushing new equipment out. Its all about what they think the customers want and what they need to align their pockets. <--- Proof of this is the Lexus ES. The Lexus ES F-Sport doesn't even come with 360 Camera. Its sad that you have to get the "luxury" model ES (Non F-Sport) to get the 360 Camera while the rest of the competition gives it to you regardless of model trim (as long as you option it).
Again - the 3 Series is the best seller because BMW produces amazing lease deals. You can lease a stripper 3 Series with nothing on it for less than $300 dollars. BMW also sells their 3 Series to rental car companies and business as fleet vehicles. How do you out-sell that? You don't. Its not because the 3 Series is a better car, its because they have more sells through other means.
Not true. Enthusiasts that drive the Lexus IS will not buy the Camry with a Turbo. They will not switch from RWD to FWD. Hell, Lexus GS owners will even buy an old GS rather than switching to the new Lexus ES.
Originally Posted by Former5SFE
I personally think maybe they should go in a different direction than just slapping in a bigger engine. Is anyone else irked by the fact that the Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti 4 cylinder turbo with 280hp is actually faster than the current 3IS with 311hp? The IS350 runs the 1/4 mile at 14 seconds while the lower powered Giulia does it in 13.6. That's a significant difference that can definitely be felt by the driver. The Giulia is lighter, but not a lot lighter. The difference is the torque and drivetrain. The Giulia gets significantly better fuel economy too. 30mpg on the highway, verified by press and youtubers. When I try hypermiling I get mid 20's at best!! With the Giulia you can have your cake and eat it too. I really think the Ti will be my next car in a few years...CPO of course hahaha
Well; turbo engines give you more torque. Thus, leading you to have a faster 0-60 acceleration. I'll bet money that in the freeway or drag on a roll, the Lexus IS350 wins easily. The Giula doesn't have much top end power.
While I do love the Giulia's design language, I think the car is rather cheap in terms of materials and reliability is horrible on an Alfa. I don't think the Giulia is having your cake and eating it - you are still trading other aspects of a car for other things. For the Giulia, you give up quality and reliability for performance. For the Lexus, you give up performance for quality and reliability. Its always a trade.
I would argue the IS is an important vehicle for Lexus. Not as important as the ES or RX for example, but it does bring a certain type of buyer into the showroom. I for instance was not interested in any other Lexus. Perhaps the RC.
Idk about the Giulia losing to the IS in acceleration. The Giulia would have a flatter power curve and thus more of the rev range where it makes peak power. Plus, we all know the 8-speed in the IS isn't geared optimally either.
With the NX (and now the UX) the IS is definitely not as important to Lexus as it was. Those two vehicles are what's going to bring the entry level buyers into the showrooms, and eventual upgrades to the RX. The IS is such a low volume seller, which is why I would note be surprised if they decided to offer an AWD version of the ES, we could see the IS killed off (maybe not for the 4IS but not long after if sales keep going in the direction of CUV/SUV). The fact that they are now offering an F Sport version of the ES suggests exactly that as well...aim for the younger demographic and blur the line between the IS/ES.
. My point is that 2GR V6 is a working horse. It has a proven reliability record and Lexus knows their main demographic aren't the power hungry type. What's happening right now is, us enthusiast which makes up 1% of the demographic of car buyers, is pushing asking for a performance engine on a car sold to the masses. That just won't happen. Toyota's business model don't revolve around pushing new equipment out.
I'll bet money that in the freeway or drag on a roll, the Lexus IS350 wins easily. The Giula doesn't have much top end power.
Your thinking that Lexus is conservative is correct, but you're a generation behind the curve. They've pushed that thinking to the limit by using the same old V6s. You know when you played arcade games as a kid and the machine says insert coin once your time is up? Well Lexus has ran out of coins.
The NA V6 is done whether you like it or not. They're at the limit of what they can do with a 3.5L N/A. If they kept the V6, that means they can't improve the 4 because the 4, by definition, would stomp it. And they have to improve the 4 turbo cause it sucks. It's slow. A bit of a catch 22.
No way they're keeping that old V6 in any form. It's being tossed in the trash heaps of automotive engine history where it belongs in favor for modern twin turbo power.
With the NX (and now the UX) the IS is definitely not as important to Lexus as it was. Those two vehicles are what's going to bring the entry level buyers into the showrooms, and eventual upgrades to the RX. The IS is such a low volume seller, which is why I would note be surprised if they decided to offer an AWD version of the ES, we could see the IS killed off (maybe not for the 4IS but not long after if sales keep going in the direction of CUV/SUV). The fact that they are now offering an F Sport version of the ES suggests exactly that as well...aim for the younger demographic and blur the line between the IS/ES.
Right and to add to this, since there's a trend of cars having to be sportier to give people incentive to buy cars over crossovers, the next IS would have to have tremendous stomping capability. this means power. No way they're doing that with the old V6.
Maybe Lexus does away with the 6 altogether in the IS and does two 4s? possible...
The new Turbo 4 BMW has does 302hp 335lb.
That's more than what their Turbo 6 used to make...
The LS is Lexus's most conservative car with respect to bringing change. If the LS gets turbos, the IS will get turbos!
I would argue the IS is an important vehicle for Lexus. Not as important as the ES or RX for example, but it does bring a certain type of buyer into the showroom. I for instance was not interested in any other Lexus. Perhaps the RC.
Idk about the Giulia losing to the IS in acceleration. The Giulia would have a flatter power curve and thus more of the rev range where it makes peak power. Plus, we all know the 8-speed in the IS isn't geared optimally either.
I think the Giulia is a lot like the 328/330 with a flat torque curve and great low/midrange. On highway though, i've ran away from a 328...they aren't great up top and I bet the Giulia is the same. The IS350 is pretty fast at highway speeds if you're willing to rev it out.
I'm going S4/S5 SB or RS3 if the new IS doesn't have a TT V6. No excuse given the whole world has gone turbo.
I think the Giulia is a lot like the 328/330 with a flat torque curve and great low/midrange. On highway though, i've ran away from a 328...they aren't great up top and I bet the Giulia is the same. The IS350 is pretty fast at highway speeds if you're willing to rev it out.
12-06-18, 07:07 AM
