I disagree, as the GS has been a touchy hot topic of discussion for nearly a year. The 3.5l twin turbo IS-F would sell in very limited numbers. Although it would be a very good drivers car it would fall victim to the ES F Sport much like its GS brethren.

Lexus would most likely charge a minimum of $52-$60k USD for the twin turbo IS and that $52k buys a whole lot of ES. Most buyers looking at cars in the Lexus showroom want some bang for their buck. While fighting similarly priced ES the twin turbo IS would theoretically have to also steal sales from the M3, M340i and C43/C63 crowds to be considered a success. Those customer are unlikely to leave their German brands no matter how good the next gen IS is potentially.

And please don’t say the ES and IS don’t compete for sales. I have receipts from Lexus stating the new ES is still considered a entry level model for the brand that competes with A4, C-class, 3er, TLX etc.

I’m all for Lexus keeping sporty drivers cars around as the core pillars of the brand for purely the image no matter how much money they loose.

As a 4GS owner I’m not a fan of either the IS or GS going away, but if we are going to ruffle the GS owners feathers on this forum, why not ruffle some IS owners feathers while we’re at it. Just saying.

Lexus thinks the New ES F Sport is so good it will appeal to buyers in their 40’s.

Don’t believe me, here is my proof from the 2019 Lexus ES international press launch event in Louisville, KY this past summer.


Lexus Executive speaking about how Lexus is targeting younger buyers with 7th gen ES.

Highrev6 couldn't have said it better myself. There is a reason the ES finally got an F Sport model, to attract the younger buyers. The UX will bring in the even younger and SUV crowd. I would not be surprised if Lexus were to offer an AWD version of the ES, it would coincide with an announcement that the GS and IS are done for. Nobody cares about enthusiasts...most of them aren't buying ***** lol.

No need to apologize to me. I’m not on team ES one bit, I know it’s a big boat! Just stating the facts. I’m all for Lexus trashing the ES tomorrow. The ES may sell well, but it hurts Lexus, Lexus wants to be held to the same standard as Mercedes and BMW, but Lexus wants to continue selling cars that compete with Buick and Acura.

The sports sedan segment is dying in North America so I'm sure they don't care too much if a small percentage of people won't buy the ES because it's a 60/40 front heavy boat. The 40 something buyers are already buying the NX and will start buying the UX when it arrives. Just wait and see the new sales numbers from Lexus a year from now...1. RX 2. NX 3. UX 4. ES everything else will be fairly far off the pace of those big hitters.

I will say this, I haven’t yet test driven the 7th generation ES F-Sport, so I shouldn’t be so critical of it handling capabilities. But I imagine if your not driving like the small few of us enthusiasts type drive our cars the ES (can’t believe I’m saying this )might actually be maybe kinda fun for the average Joe. Now this is purely based on speculation and the fact the the F Sport ES now comes standard with adjustable dampers.

I wish I could travel in time to see what Lexus has planned for us Enthusiasts in 24 months. I’m serious eyeing the M840i Gran Coupé as the replacment for my 4GS.

Lexus better introduce my 4 door LC as GS replacement.

It could go on hiatus to see if there is any upward trend in the sedan segment in the coming years, but the fact that the ancient GX even out sells the IS now is very telling where consumers heads are at. The issue with the SUV phase is that they are way more fuel efficient than 10-15 years ago, so I don't see high fuel prices bringing the smaller sedan back.

I agree with 85% of your above post. But I have to nick pick at the silly UX. I don’t think it will be the sales hit Lexus was hoping for. It’s got a lot of hot competition. It’s failure in my opinion will be based on it not offering AWD on the non hybrid model and it’s lack of cargo space. The Achilles heel is the hybrid has the standard AWD, but because of how they design the layout has a even further reduced rear storage compartment compared to the non gas model. There are too many great other choices in that segment that will steal customers away from the UX. Mainly the XC40, the upcoming redesigned GLA, and the X1.

We'll just have to see. I think it will be a success. The sub-compact luxury SUV is the fastest growing in the segment, so regardless of the competition there will be room for many players. Lexus will always get a good amount of sales purely based on competitive pricing and Lexus quality (look at the NX, it's DEFINITELY not the best in it's segment but it's the top selling in North America).

Yes, but the NX is based upon the best selling crossover in NA also 4th best selling vehicle in NA. The RAV is awesome, so quite naturally the NX Apple isn’t going to fall far from the tree. We will have to see, but signs aren’t good. Just take a peek at the CH-R’s sales which is the platform twin to the UX. Toyota dealers are blowing the dust off the hood and begging customers to drive them off the lot. I happen to work on the marketing campaigns for the CH-R when it launched almost 2 years ago.