My mother told me when she was growing up in the 60’s everyone drove a station wagon. Not it seems the chickens are coming home to roost again in a slightly higher form.

The Rav4 is really not that awesome (not talking about the newly launched version). If you compare it to the CR-V, CX-5 and others, they are much "better" choices. But once again Toyota got by with the value proposition, a solid vehicle, and insane reliability. Consumers are for the most part dumb lol. The NX is not a great vehicle when compared to the competition, but again Lexus trumps in so many of the intangible categories that of course it's going to do well. The C-HR is too weird in my opinion. At least the UX is a pretty nice looking vehicle (in my opinion). Also if watch/read any of the reviews on the UX most journalists have said it feels nothing like the C-HR which is a good thing.

The CH-R comes in almost dead last place in the subcompact crossover segment. Yes it sold 49k copies last year, but if you look at what the competitors are selling in the same 12 months the 49k copies doesn’t seem so huge any more especially for a company the size of Toyota. All the main competition is right around the 100k mark some leaning closer to 75k because they have cannibalized sales due to sister vehicles. But over all Jeep killed it with 170k Compasses, Subaru wasn’t far off with 150k Crosstrek’s Honda did nearly 100k sales with its HR-V, GM combined did nearly 200k sales with its Encore/Trax twins. Toyota only outsold the 6 year Mitsubishi Outlander Sport by 15k copies.

The CH-R isn’t doing well, I work with marketing this vehicle all the time. We always have to come up with excuses for why it’s better than the competition. I get that “really” look from consumers regularly! Lol

I always receive the same complaints when I talk to consumers, it lacks AWD, it doesn’t offer Apple car play, its cargo space is too small, the rear quarter blind spot is too big and they always complain they feel claustrophobic in the back seat.

Only time will tell the truth, let’s talk in 6 months. I Bet the UX comes in 4th or 5th place in its specific sales segment. Believe me I know what the typical consumer wants this is what I do for a living.

You can attack the RAV4 all you want. That car rocks, even before the redesign. And it’s not just because it’s reliable, what the journalist and enthusiast like and what Joe Smoe looks at as benefits don’t necessarily have to correlate for a vehicle to be a winner. It hits all the right marks with the perfect amount of execution and that’s what matters the most. The RAV is stomping all over the competition especially the CX-5. Which I think is nice, but most Toyota consumers don’t even look at it for reasons I won’t mention right now.

I worked in new model development for them for almost 10 years (including the launch of the Rav4) so I also know very well what it does well and why, and also why consumers clamour towards it (again reference a comment I made earlier about consumers).

I know what you called them, I’m not going to call them that. They are responsible for keeping food on my table.

I agree with your above statement, but I also think we both can agree that not every one who buys a IS/GS, C/E class, 3/5 series are a car enthusiast. We both know there are consumers who drive a E300 AMG package who think their car has a turbo V4. My question is with our car enthusiast buyers segment shrinking for various reasons, Will we eventually be forgotten in lieu of big SUV and boring 3 box sedan sales.

Understandable lol. Thankfully I'm out of the industry now and don't miss it for even a second. I'm back to just enjoying cars like I always have, and not have my livelihood invested in them.

I agree, hopefully I can get out this industry too, before this big recession hits is hard
#entreprenuership2019

Exactly. Very few are enthusiasts. That's why asking these kinds of questions on an enthusiasts forum will get responses that are not in touch with reality. If there were hundreds of thousands of enthusiasts lining up to buy high performance sports sedans, Lexus would be spitting them out left right and center (like everyone is doing with SUV's).

Lexus brand didn’t start as a Motorsports enthusiast enthusiast brand turned luxury car manufacturer, but the exact opposite. I would say the old 1998 Lexus GS commercial advertisment titled “Something Wicked This Way Comes” was Lexus first time dipping their toes into enthusiast brand waters. The brand at the time broke the world record for fastest accelerating 4 door sedan in the world for a short time with the GS400. We have to ask ourselves Lexus has for years teeter-tottered on the We are Luxury vs We are a Enthusiast brand seesaw. It’s obvious Lexus's Seesaw is has always leaned more luxury than sports car enthusiast. But what is the direction going forward.

I thought after they revamped the 4GS in 2012 they would spread that type to sportiness to the entire lineup. They discontinued the IS-F, introduced a overweight/half baked RC-F 2 years later, then we got the really good GS-F, but it was 4 years too late and slightly behind on power compared to the competition. Lexus has always been one step behind the competition in regards to horsepower and overall performance. I’m not sure what direction the brand is headed in. We keep receiving mixed smoke signals, we get the awesome driving LC/LS dual then we get the ES and ridiculous rumors regarding the IS and GS being discontinued.