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Not saying you in particular but I just get tired of this Japanese car fan almost gang-member like mentality of my side vs your side type of attitude. Like there's just this automatic disrespect because one "side" happens to be from Germany. And the other side isn't wearing your colors. Like as if it's supposed to be that way. You don't really see women acting this way. To me it's just testosterone-laced machismo masquerading as genuine car enthusiasm. I think it's better for everyone if we can learn to accept and respect and even praise the merits of all cars regardless of who made them. A good product is a good product. All automakers contribute to the overall advancement we have today in one way or another. There's no right side.
I agree with you, to a point. But when it comes to heritage, I lean the other way. I'd like to see an American made V8 in the Corvette too, not a BMW V8. Doesn't mean I don't like BMW, it just means that I KNOW America can make a V8 just as well as BMW (for the intended purpose), so they should.
Originally Posted by E46CT
If Toyota could revive the old 2JZ-GTE engine plans with a few simple cheap updates, they would've done so. The fact is those engines would not compete today. They are legendary engines but if you are objective about it, they would not compete today. Real life, real target demo isn't a drag strip. Sports cars are a shrinking market so collaboration rather than going at it alone makes total sense when a business case has to be brought to the board.
I didn't say anything about cheap.
And I disagree, I think the 2JZ-GTE would work just fine today, with proper emissions. I just think there would be an outcry over it because of how old it is vs such a new, futuristic car.
Real life target IS a dragstrip, because that's what makes the car iconic. What was originally intended may have been something different, but the public has spoken...and Toyota should be proud, and LISTEN.
A collaboration IS smart business, but at the expense of heritage. And with all due respect, the Sports Car market is ALIVE AND WELL...along with manual gearboxes that require more driver input. The quicker automatic numbers only get you the sale, the manual DRIVE is what keeps you in the car. It's sad that a lot of companies are having to relearn this...
I might be out to lunch but I see way more BMW design elements in this car than I do Toyota and I feel like all Toyota did was put their sticker on the outside. Too many design elements are familiar. We already know from Jalopnik, there are BMW parts everywhere.
The rear reminds me of the Z4. Look at the crease in the roof, ducktail truck lid, fast back.
The front and the vents scream Z3 to me. The nose! Put an LED strip on the headlights!
Compare the silhouette and shoulder lines.
The Z3,Z4 and 2020 Supra are gorgeous cars but I think the polarization in opinion is in people expecting the resurrection of the Supra along with the culture that car fostered and championed. Instead it looks like two companies trying to cash in on the Supra name given some strong nostalgia metric. To be fair to them, maybe this was the only way they could deliver this to market. Given the success of the Nissan GTR, This looks like Toyota's attempt.
Toyota : "People seem to want the the Supra back!"
BMW : "We had this ZX we designed back in the day that had 2 doors like your Supra did - What do you think?"
Toyota : "Does it come Badge-less?"
Collaborations with Toyota have been done many times in the past. Once upon a time there was a Toyota Cavalier (Cringe). Which competitor will Toyota collaborate with next?
I might be out to lunch but I see way more BMW design elements in this car than I do Toyota and I feel like all Toyota did was put their sticker on the outside. Too many design elements are familiar. We already know from Jalopnik, there are BMW parts everywhere. The rear reminds me of the Z4. Look at the crease in the roof, ducktail truck lid, fast back. The front and the vents scream Z3 to me. The nose! Put an LED strip on the headlights!
The Z3,Z4 and 2020 Supra are gorgeous cars but I think the polarization in opinion is in people expecting the resurrection of the Supra along with the culture that car fostered and championed. Instead it looks like two companies trying to cash in on the Supra name given some strong nostalgia metric. To be fair to them, maybe this was the only way they could deliver this to market. Given the success of the Nissan GTR, This looks like Toyota's attempt.
Toyota : "People seem to want the the Supra back!"
BMW : "We had this ZX we designed back in the day that had 2 doors like your Supra did - What do you think?"
Toyota : "Does it come Badge-less?"
Collaborations with Toyota have been done many times in the past. Once upon a time there was a Toyota Cavalier (Cringe). Which competitor will Toyota collaborate with next?
Well said. I don't mind platform sharing on this car as much as replacement of its beating heart, which is really what made it famous. I'm just talking into the wind though, no way in hell I'd own it, or a Z4.
It weighs 176 pounds less then the previous gen and adds 5 more hp getting it to 472hp I’d like to see if I can hang with it considering my 350 makes 439whp I think I could
The old car was an "open top" car, which adds weight.
That said, there's no doubt that the new car will have a far stiffer chassis than the old car.
Too bad no manual. 8(
I haven't driven the 2JZ for a long time (did when I was younger and a friend had it swapped in another car) but I don't think that engine would have the power (stock) and response a modern BMW turbo straight six has, particularly this B58. and it certainly wouldn't have the efficiency or quietness or burn as clean.
The BMW engine easily out-performs the old 2JZ-GTE, in every regard, except for maximum HP potential.
I like the styling, it's a lot like the MKIV, but updated. The BMW turbo straight-6 is a great motor (no V6 compares). I am a bit disappointed that, apparently, the entire car is a BMW, with Toyota sheetmetal on top. I hear nothing but praise for the ZF 8-speed, but nothing beats a manual for driver involvement. Overall, it's better than anything Lexus has offered.
I enjoyed that video. Appreciated the elaborate testing done by Toyota. And seems contrary to other rumors I heard. Being that chasis, experior, interior, and suspension all designed separately.
They certainly do share some lines as previously pointed out.
I enjoyed that video. Appreciated the elaborate testing done by Toyota. And seems contrary to other rumors I heard. Being that chasis, experior, interior, and suspension all designed separately.
They certainly do share some lines as previously pointed out.
I haven't watched the video yet, will later. But I don't think Toyota designed the chassis or suspension. They tuned the chassis and suspension from what I can tell, and what logic would tell me. It's all BMW design and engineering. It's just Toyota saying hey can we get a stiffer bushing here or a looser one there, can we have 34% electric steering assist below 25 mph instead of the Z4's 38%. Stuff like that. Basically giving specs to suppliers to fulfill. The underpinnings, chassis, etc. will have Lemforder and Sachs stamps on them as BMWs do.
edit:
and yep I was right. Full BMW parts underneath. Pictured is BMW's thrust arm system (see the bmw sticker on it). it's all BMW underneath. all BMW. driveline, suspension, everything.
Kinda hated it at first but then it grew on me..but definitely not gonna buy it the first year it comes out. Gonna wait till next year so I can see what’s everyone’s feedback
01-16-19 | 09:08 AM
