AtomicAWD

Volkswagen is no stranger to bland and boring as well, and sometimes (like with the EOS) go downright ugly. Last appealing car from them for me was the 2nd-gen Scirocco.

Must be a German thing...

EXE46

I sure will, thanks.

dizlex

Silly. 350 would be PLENTY if it's accompanied by good low-end torque. (Which today's 350 lacks, obviously.)

E46CT

I saw on a new video where Toyota engineers said (in an interview) they ordered some B58 engines from BMW and tore them down piece by piece because they had concerns about reliability for use in the Supra. They said they were impressed at every piece and they are confident of using BMW's B58 with Toyota's reputation backing it. They said BMW makes the best straight six in the business. And something along the lines of building one from scratch would cost tons of money and take generations to refine. About along the lines what i've said.

yet to be seen if they're really using it in future Lexus products.. but w/ the above, Toyota seems to give it the nod of reliability. So if they didn't, it probably wouldn't be because of that.

WhyHateTho

Check this video out. Very informative

AtomicAWD

Time for BMW, Audi, and Mercedes to "strip down Lexus cars piece by piece" and figure out how to build vehicles that make it beyond the warranty period without resale value plummeting and four-figure repairs every (frequent) time something breaks.

AVIAT0R

LOOL that gave me a good laugh of agreement!

E46CT

^That's cute but doesn't reflect reality. Lexus is still behind Mercedes-Benz and BMW in North American Luxury Car sales. At the end of the day it's a business, and not "reliability bragging rights" for some fan boys.

Also keep in mind your reliability bragging rights (a great thing, sure) stem from decades of Lexuses with aging Camry V6 engines and 4 and 5 speed autos.

Lexus is barely as of last year getting into the turbo engine game w/ tech. So you can't use those same bragging rights against a market to which you've only begun to compete with.

E46CT

And case in point is that Lexus had no turbo 6 powerplant of their own to use in the Supra. powerplants are not developed out of thin air.

i know a lot of japanese fan boys are really really REALLY personally upset and angry at Toyota using BMW engines. They want a "side" to be angry at. they want their "side" to go to war with the other "side." They want "colors" and "jerseys" to "represent." But the engineers and execs actually responsible for making the cars are not even thinking along fan boy lines. they're practical and realistic. And smart.

arentz07

I don't think the engine internals are to blame for the more recent BMW powerplants anyway. Seems like it's always something ancillary to the engine.

@E46CT : Consider that when the 2GR-FSE was new, back in 2005, it was one of the first engines to have both port- and direct-injection at the same time. It also had a very high specific output for the time. The engine hasn't changed much over the years, until the 2GR-FKS superseded it, of course (while retaining the same basic design as the FSE), and has remained relevant.

Sure the 2GR has some common failures not unlike the Germans, like water pumps and hoses (which have been fixed by recalls), but the engine itself, much like the inline-sixes from BMW, is solid.

AtomicAWD

Pretty hilarious all the reactionary defensive "fanboy" talk when all we hear from a certain corner is how amazing BMWs and Mercedes are. Logical fallacies abound, appealing to sales numbers when the issue is reliability and maintenance costs

Nobody is saying BMW doesn't make good engines, not even Scotty Kilmer. Reality is, it's THE REST OF THE CAR, which was the ORIGINAL POINT and conveniently avoided. I owned a BMW, and despite the cost of repairs at least it was before the past decade's sordid history of plastic electro-garbed money-pit machines. My trusted German-specialist mechanic made no bones about telling me to not buy any German car built in the past 10 years. Sure, go lease a brand-new one, just make sure you give it back and run run away.

Flash5

Nothing new here from E46CT he rants about fanboys then acts like one because someone said something bad about BMW. I am actually contemplating the new BMW Supra (LOL) as a future car for me if I don't get the GTR R35. A good used one shouldn't be too bad in about 4-6 years. I guess I say that now, but who knows what will be out in 4-6 years from now. It just depends on how many are out there too since I don't like super common cars like American Muscle vehicles. I actually love the body style even if it is polarizing to others and if Toyota says that BMW engine is solid as well as the ZF transmission, I believe them.

GNS

The engine itself is strongly built, it's everything else around it that will fail.

AtomicAWD

Indeed, if it has a quality proven BMW engine and everything else of Toyota origin surrounding it, it's likely a good combo.

EXE46

Both BMW and Toyota have their strengths and weaknesses. Car enthusiasts needs to have an open mind. Yes the typical BMW will have higher servicing costs than a typical Toyota and same goes for resale. However, not everybody buys a BMW or a Toyota for long term reliability and resale value. Look how many people are leasing these days, hence the tired argument is highlighting the Toyota's probability of lasting decades is mute. If E46CT was such a blind fanboy why would he have gotten a 3IS. The fanboys are the one's who will never try another brand other than Toyota. Fanboys are everywhere and they're annoying, unable to see anything beyond their own perspective. BMW have plenty too and the same applies to them, they worship the roundel and will never give another marque a try.

It is true that most of us wish Toyota had developed their own engines; however, the people at Toyota chose to use BMW 's and the irony here is they don't share the fanboy's opinion. They felt they made the right choice so just accept and move on. The Toyota today is not the Toyota of the bygone era.