Latest info on Lexus 4IS powerplant... (hold onto your seats for this one)
#121
Lexus: buy or lease
BMW: lease only
Last edited by AtomicAWD; 05-13-19 at 07:07 PM.
#122
EDIT: Meant to say I6 lol. But BMW does make V6's as well believe or not. They make prototypes and they never end up using them since they never come to their standards apparently. @EZZ
Last edited by Flash5; 05-14-19 at 08:03 AM.
#123
Originally Posted by Flash5
Agreed, as long as the electronics, etc. were Toyota suppliers, it should be fine. I know people preach about the ZF transmission being super epic. Engineering Explained made a video on the ZF transmission recently. BMW is very solid when it comes to their V6's, that's a known fact. Either way, Toyota won't risk their reliability reputation so they must be pretty sure it's going to be solid.
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JDR76 (05-14-19)
#125
Rumour (pretty credible) has it that BMW does indeed build V6s, but they're secret prototypes. They say they don't meet BMW's harshness and noise standards so they don't make it into production. So technically they'd make V6, but just not offer them in cars they sell
somewhere... someplace... in a secret testing facility lies a BMW V6.
This is likely why Lexus may be taking interest in using the B58 in a future 4IS. MBZ is moving to an I6 they developed and well a harsh noisy thrashy V6 would stand out like a sore thumb.
somewhere... someplace... in a secret testing facility lies a BMW V6.
This is likely why Lexus may be taking interest in using the B58 in a future 4IS. MBZ is moving to an I6 they developed and well a harsh noisy thrashy V6 would stand out like a sore thumb.
#126
https://lexusenthusiast.com/2019/07/...oming-in-2021/
The next-generation Lexus IS sedan will have a three-engine lineup and will also be offered as a high-performance IS F, according to Japanese website Response.
Let’s tackle the rumoured powertrains first — the 2.0L turbo from the current model will be carried over as a base model, as will the 2.5L hybrid currently offered on the IS 300h outside of North America. A new 2.4L turbo engine has been tasked to replace the outdated 3.5L V6 that’s been a staple of the model for over a decade.
The next-generation model will debut in 2021 and share a platform with the Japanese marketToyota Crown. It’s expected that the IS will increase slightly in overall length.
The bigger news is the reappearance of the high-performance IS F, which was discontinued in 2015 after the current model was introduced. Response is reporting that the 3.5L twin-turbo V6 from the LS 500 will be the powertrain, delivering 416 horsepower and paired with a 10-speed automatic transmission.
Let’s tackle the rumoured powertrains first — the 2.0L turbo from the current model will be carried over as a base model, as will the 2.5L hybrid currently offered on the IS 300h outside of North America. A new 2.4L turbo engine has been tasked to replace the outdated 3.5L V6 that’s been a staple of the model for over a decade.
The next-generation model will debut in 2021 and share a platform with the Japanese marketToyota Crown. It’s expected that the IS will increase slightly in overall length.
The bigger news is the reappearance of the high-performance IS F, which was discontinued in 2015 after the current model was introduced. Response is reporting that the 3.5L twin-turbo V6 from the LS 500 will be the powertrain, delivering 416 horsepower and paired with a 10-speed automatic transmission.
#127
#128
Agreed, as long as the electronics, etc. were Toyota suppliers, it should be fine. I know people preach about the ZF transmission being super epic. Engineering Explained made a video on the ZF transmission recently. BMW is very solid when it comes to their I6's, that's a known fact. Either way, Toyota won't risk their reliability reputation so they must be pretty sure it's going to be solid.
EDIT: Meant to say I6 lol. But BMW does make V6's as well believe or not. They make prototypes and they never end up using them since they never come to their standards apparently. @EZZ
EDIT: Meant to say I6 lol. But BMW does make V6's as well believe or not. They make prototypes and they never end up using them since they never come to their standards apparently. @EZZ
Now that I think about it, I can't think of a recent BMW engine that's been highly praised for long-term durability despite being a hoot to drive when new and under warranty.
#129
I'm a little surprised by this statement... The N54 is known for being incredibly high maintenance on the BMW forums. The N55 is marginally better according to topics the owners on Bimmerpost discuss. BMW has had several recent oil pan gasket leaks and failed timing chains at early mileage on their mainstream engines.
Now that I think about it, I can't think of a recent BMW engine that's been highly praised for long-term durability despite being a hoot to drive when new and under warranty.
Now that I think about it, I can't think of a recent BMW engine that's been highly praised for long-term durability despite being a hoot to drive when new and under warranty.
#130
This couldn't be further from the truth. Every time I see another IS on the road, it's almost always driven by someone in their late 30s/early 40s and a lot of them are women. Aka it's not specifically meant for younger people who are power hungry. If anyone wants power/performance and goes with an IS, that's their first mistake. The aggressive styling from Lexus definitely appeals to the younger demographic but I'm sure they'd rather have the middle aged people who just want a reasonably priced comfortable & reliable car. I LOVE my IS because it just stands out and it's reliable. I always get compliments from auto enthusiasts as well as just random people that love the styling of it.
The IS was never supposed to compete with the 3 series performance wise. What we get is the great handling, low maintenance & reliability. Hell, I'll take our interior over the 3 series' any day of the week as well.
With that said, the 3.5 V6 is for sure outdated and it needs an improvement but realistically I think if the 4IS 350 comes with about 350-70 HP at the crank and the new IS F can reach 475-500 HP, I think that'd put Lexus at the top with the Germans.
The IS was never supposed to compete with the 3 series performance wise. What we get is the great handling, low maintenance & reliability. Hell, I'll take our interior over the 3 series' any day of the week as well.
With that said, the 3.5 V6 is for sure outdated and it needs an improvement but realistically I think if the 4IS 350 comes with about 350-70 HP at the crank and the new IS F can reach 475-500 HP, I think that'd put Lexus at the top with the Germans.
#131
People should not apologize for Lexus and the lack of competitiveness with the 3 series. The IS got the 2GR-FSE back in 2006, which forced BMW to speed up development on the N54. The 2GR's hp, in a sedan aimed squarely at the 3 series, suggest to me that Lexus knew exactly what they were doing. The IS was definitely meant to go against the German competition, it's just that the Germans have progressed by leaps and bounds while Lexus inexplicably left the IS to rot on the branch.
The IS being unique and reliable is not enough justification as to why there is no mid-range model (ie. M340i, S4, C43, G70, Q50 RS, CT5-V, TLX Type-S soon), and why the IS-F got canned. It's like saying that your mahogany-handled straight razor from 1950 is unique and reliable, yet today's Braun shavers do the job in 1/10th the time, with no pain, no mess, and you don't even need a mirror.
Count it - there are 7 competitors for the mid-range, 8 if you want to throw the Kia Stinger GT in. Lexus either got caught off guard, or they were forced to wait it out due to internal politics. Maybe they were waiting on TNGA development to complete, or they were waiting on the flagships and high sellers (RX, NX etc) to get TNGA.
It's inexcusable no matter what - the competition is pushing 400hp in some cases, and all of them are in the 4~ish second range for 0 - 60 times. Everything is getting better while the IS is still on the 'New N' platform, still using the outdated 6 speed in the AWD version and is still using a 14 year old engine design. Are they just waiting for everything to fall in place before updating the IS? If so, they'd better bring their A game because the aforementioned 7 will kill the IS out of the gate if there isn't a base model (2.4T), mid-range (3.5 TTV6), and a high performance model (IS-F with a V8).
I'm not trying to be confrontational or anything, it's just that I want Lexus to wake up and see how the market is leaving them so far behind.
The IS being unique and reliable is not enough justification as to why there is no mid-range model (ie. M340i, S4, C43, G70, Q50 RS, CT5-V, TLX Type-S soon), and why the IS-F got canned. It's like saying that your mahogany-handled straight razor from 1950 is unique and reliable, yet today's Braun shavers do the job in 1/10th the time, with no pain, no mess, and you don't even need a mirror.
Count it - there are 7 competitors for the mid-range, 8 if you want to throw the Kia Stinger GT in. Lexus either got caught off guard, or they were forced to wait it out due to internal politics. Maybe they were waiting on TNGA development to complete, or they were waiting on the flagships and high sellers (RX, NX etc) to get TNGA.
It's inexcusable no matter what - the competition is pushing 400hp in some cases, and all of them are in the 4~ish second range for 0 - 60 times. Everything is getting better while the IS is still on the 'New N' platform, still using the outdated 6 speed in the AWD version and is still using a 14 year old engine design. Are they just waiting for everything to fall in place before updating the IS? If so, they'd better bring their A game because the aforementioned 7 will kill the IS out of the gate if there isn't a base model (2.4T), mid-range (3.5 TTV6), and a high performance model (IS-F with a V8).
I'm not trying to be confrontational or anything, it's just that I want Lexus to wake up and see how the market is leaving them so far behind.
Last edited by GNS; 07-27-19 at 09:59 AM. Reason: Better words
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evident (07-28-19)
#132
People should not apologize for Lexus and the lack of competitiveness with the 3 series. The fact is, the IS got the 2GR-FSE back in 2006 which forced BMW to speed up development on the N54. The IS was definitely meant to go against the German competition, it's just that the Germans have progressed by leaps and bounds while Lexus inexplicably left the IS to rot on the branch.
Saying that the IS is unique and reliable is not enough to justify why there is no mid-range model (ie. M340i, S4, C43, G70, Q50 RS, CT5-V, TLX Type-S soon), and why the IS-F got canned. It's like saying that your mahogany-handled straight razor from 1950 is unique and reliable, but today's Braun shavers do the job in 1/10th the time, with no pain, no mess, and you don't even need a mirror.
Count it - there are 7 competitors for the mid-range, 8 if you want to throw the Kia Stinger GT in. Lexus either got caught off guard, or they were forced to wait it out due to internal politics and/or waiting on TNGA, waiting on the flagships and high sellers (RX, NX etc) to get TNGA. Either way it's inexcusable.
I'm not trying to be confrontational or anything, it's just that I want Lexus to wake up and see how the market is leaving them so far behind.
Saying that the IS is unique and reliable is not enough to justify why there is no mid-range model (ie. M340i, S4, C43, G70, Q50 RS, CT5-V, TLX Type-S soon), and why the IS-F got canned. It's like saying that your mahogany-handled straight razor from 1950 is unique and reliable, but today's Braun shavers do the job in 1/10th the time, with no pain, no mess, and you don't even need a mirror.
Count it - there are 7 competitors for the mid-range, 8 if you want to throw the Kia Stinger GT in. Lexus either got caught off guard, or they were forced to wait it out due to internal politics and/or waiting on TNGA, waiting on the flagships and high sellers (RX, NX etc) to get TNGA. Either way it's inexcusable.
I'm not trying to be confrontational or anything, it's just that I want Lexus to wake up and see how the market is leaving them so far behind.
I recently drove the latest G30 320d on the autobahn. I was stunned how smooth and quiet it was. But more importantly, I couldn’t believe the speed it got up to cruising speed upon filtering onto the autobahn. It accelerated like a V8. Later I discovered that this BMW bread and butter diesel with a 2 litre I4 diesel (the indicated range on the trip computer was 1000kms) is now a sub 6 second car. For perspective, the halo LC500h is a 5.5 second car.
For me its not really about the performance numbers. But I appreciate the sheer effortless ease of everyday driving where real torque counts, for people like me who just enjoys normal motoring.
I no longer think that the difference is due simply to philosophical ideology of car making. The Supra suggest to me they really are that far behind technologically.
#133
#134
People should not apologize for Lexus and the lack of competitiveness with the 3 series. The IS got the 2GR-FSE back in 2006, which forced BMW to speed up development on the N54. The 2GR's hp, in a sedan aimed squarely at the 3 series, suggest to me that Lexus knew exactly what they were doing. The IS was definitely meant to go against the German competition, it's just that the Germans have progressed by leaps and bounds while Lexus inexplicably left the IS to rot on the branch.
The IS being unique and reliable is not enough justification as to why there is no mid-range model (ie. M340i, S4, C43, G70, Q50 RS, CT5-V, TLX Type-S soon), and why the IS-F got canned. It's like saying that your mahogany-handled straight razor from 1950 is unique and reliable, yet today's Braun shavers do the job in 1/10th the time, with no pain, no mess, and you don't even need a mirror.
Count it - there are 7 competitors for the mid-range, 8 if you want to throw the Kia Stinger GT in. Lexus either got caught off guard, or they were forced to wait it out due to internal politics. Maybe they were waiting on TNGA development to complete, or they were waiting on the flagships and high sellers (RX, NX etc) to get TNGA.
It's inexcusable no matter what - the competition is pushing 400hp in some cases, and all of them are in the 4~ish second range for 0 - 60 times. Everything is getting better while the IS is still on the 'New N' platform, still using the outdated 6 speed in the AWD version and is still using a 14 year old engine design. Are they just waiting for everything to fall in place before updating the IS? If so, they'd better bring their A game because the aforementioned 7 will kill the IS out of the gate if there isn't a base model (2.4T), mid-range (3.5 TTV6), and a high performance model (IS-F with a V8).
I'm not trying to be confrontational or anything, it's just that I want Lexus to wake up and see how the market is leaving them so far behind.
The IS being unique and reliable is not enough justification as to why there is no mid-range model (ie. M340i, S4, C43, G70, Q50 RS, CT5-V, TLX Type-S soon), and why the IS-F got canned. It's like saying that your mahogany-handled straight razor from 1950 is unique and reliable, yet today's Braun shavers do the job in 1/10th the time, with no pain, no mess, and you don't even need a mirror.
Count it - there are 7 competitors for the mid-range, 8 if you want to throw the Kia Stinger GT in. Lexus either got caught off guard, or they were forced to wait it out due to internal politics. Maybe they were waiting on TNGA development to complete, or they were waiting on the flagships and high sellers (RX, NX etc) to get TNGA.
It's inexcusable no matter what - the competition is pushing 400hp in some cases, and all of them are in the 4~ish second range for 0 - 60 times. Everything is getting better while the IS is still on the 'New N' platform, still using the outdated 6 speed in the AWD version and is still using a 14 year old engine design. Are they just waiting for everything to fall in place before updating the IS? If so, they'd better bring their A game because the aforementioned 7 will kill the IS out of the gate if there isn't a base model (2.4T), mid-range (3.5 TTV6), and a high performance model (IS-F with a V8).
I'm not trying to be confrontational or anything, it's just that I want Lexus to wake up and see how the market is leaving them so far behind.
#135
Yup to the recent posts. Japanese companies, but Lexus specifically, are very conservative about bringing new tech/engines to the table. Just the way it always has been. Their reputation rides on their reliability and new engines and new tech just doesn't help them.... but also doesn't help them compete. So they are in sort of a catch 22. Be as competitive as possible but as reliable as possible. So as a result, lexus tends to fall on the lower end of the spectrum in terms of exciting.
it's mind boggling how much tech bmw and audi is advancing into their new cars.. too many to name. while the most exotic features of new lexuses is it connects to bluetooth
it's mind boggling how much tech bmw and audi is advancing into their new cars.. too many to name. while the most exotic features of new lexuses is it connects to bluetooth