Another Gas Discussion
02-03-20, 03:25 PM
#16
This car would most likely survive years on gas on sub 91 on gas.. the engine's computer will adjust (will definitely cause more damage). Just keep things simple and put 91 in your car. Ethanol is pretty scarce from my understanding so why even go out of your way to put something in the car that's not readily available?
The following users liked this post:
sunamer (02-04-20)
02-03-20, 04:30 PM
#17
02-03-20, 08:30 PM
#19
drives cars
Just do what the manual says and you'll be fine. Doesn't make sense to nitpick everything as basic as oil and gas nowadays as everything is great as long as it meets spec.
Peoples time is better spent walking around your car to visually inspect your tires for damage or low air so it's safe to drive. That's the discussion people should be using their energy on =)
I'll do this for friends who aren't necessarily car people and i was shocked at things i've found. Could've saved someones life!
Peoples time is better spent walking around your car to visually inspect your tires for damage or low air so it's safe to drive. That's the discussion people should be using their energy on =)
I'll do this for friends who aren't necessarily car people and i was shocked at things i've found. Could've saved someones life!
And yeah another pet peeve of mine is waiting until the low tire pressure light comes on to check tire pressure... by that point, damage has been done - in terms of tire wear and fuel mileage.
It's funny, by being a little more cognizant of your car's wear items, you would save as much, or possibly more, money in the long run than by trying to run the lowest possible octane (in this case, trying to run 87 instead of 91).
The following users liked this post:
lew_b (02-05-20)
02-03-20, 08:33 PM
#20
Pole Position
"Another" is right... This topic has been beaten to death. Manual says 91 or higher, and the fuel filler door (or somewhere in there, don't recall exactly) says up to E15 may be used. So, my advice is just to stick to those requirements, with a bonus being if you use Top Tier fuel.
I haven't noticed any difference between 93 and 91, but I do believe what sunamer is saying about E0 yielding better MPG. It could be placebo effect, but I also think the car felt just a tad smoother on E0. Either way, I don't go out of my way to use E0 - benefits are really small and mostly comes down to piece of mind or miniscule MPG benefits.
I haven't noticed any difference between 93 and 91, but I do believe what sunamer is saying about E0 yielding better MPG. It could be placebo effect, but I also think the car felt just a tad smoother on E0. Either way, I don't go out of my way to use E0 - benefits are really small and mostly comes down to piece of mind or miniscule MPG benefits.
02-03-20, 09:27 PM
#21
drives cars
That would be incorrect. Ethanol has less energy density than gasoline so it’s not a placebo. 1.5 gallons of ethanol has about the same energy as 1 gallon of pure gasoline. I do agree it’s pretty negligible at about 5% but as you start hitting E10 and above it’s more noticeable. I wouldn’t worry about it too much though unless you have a tune that is squeezing out every little bit of power out of the engine, but based on my 2 years on Club Lexus I have yet to see anyone doing that besides the twin turbo dude on here. I was happy to see Germany only requires 5% ethanol in their gasoline and I think most of the premium gas from Esso contains very little if any ethanol. You would have to REALLY run the numbers to actually see the differences in no ethanol versus ethanol gasoline though.
For me, it's 5 cents per gallon difference to get E0, but the only local gas station that has it is a bit out of the way and in an area that's busy during commute times, so I don't find it worth it to get E0 in my specific circumstance.
02-03-20, 09:37 PM
#22
Pole Position
Yeah my point was, you probably won't notice the difference. I mean sunamer actually has data to support the claim that it improve fuel economy. I know that, according to science, it's better. I'm just saying, it's not going to make the car drive completely differently or anything like that. For me, it's 5 cents per gallon difference to get E0, but the only local gas station that has it is a bit out of the way and in an area that's busy during commute times, so I don't find it worth it to get E0 in my specific circumstance.
For me, it's 5 cents per gallon difference to get E0, but the only local gas station that has it is a bit out of the way and in an area that's busy during commute times, so I don't find it worth it to get E0 in my specific circumstance.
The following users liked this post:
arentz07 (02-04-20)
02-03-20, 09:46 PM
#23
https://www.pure-gas.org
This site keeps a pretty inclusive list of ethanol free stations in the US and Canada if that’s what you want to run. They seem to mainly be in rural areas. I’d probably use it if any stations were near me.
This site keeps a pretty inclusive list of ethanol free stations in the US and Canada if that’s what you want to run. They seem to mainly be in rural areas. I’d probably use it if any stations were near me.
02-04-20, 04:38 AM
#24
https://www.pure-gas.org
This site keeps a pretty inclusive list of ethanol free stations in the US and Canada if that’s what you want to run. They seem to mainly be in rural areas. I’d probably use it if any stations were near me.
This site keeps a pretty inclusive list of ethanol free stations in the US and Canada if that’s what you want to run. They seem to mainly be in rural areas. I’d probably use it if any stations were near me.
02-04-20, 04:49 AM
#25
Driver
Thread Starter
02-04-20, 10:00 AM
#26
https://www.pure-gas.org
This site keeps a pretty inclusive list of ethanol free stations in the US and Canada if that’s what you want to run. They seem to mainly be in rural areas. I’d probably use it if any stations were near me.
This site keeps a pretty inclusive list of ethanol free stations in the US and Canada if that’s what you want to run. They seem to mainly be in rural areas. I’d probably use it if any stations were near me.
02-04-20, 10:15 AM
#27
Lead Lap
That is interesting - Where I live, all Irving gas (premium which is 91) is all Ethanol free and since Irving refinery provides the fuel for most of the suppliers in the area (including Costco), then I am getting 0 ethanol in my supreme. In fact, all the pumps here advertise which "may contain Ethanol 10%) and those that don't and this confirms it...thanks for sharing!
02-04-20, 01:40 PM
#28
That would be incorrect. Ethanol has less energy density than gasoline so it’s not a placebo. 1.5 gallons of ethanol has about the same energy as 1 gallon of pure gasoline. I do agree it’s pretty negligible at about 5% but as you start hitting E10 and above it’s more noticeable.
energy/volume:
for ethanol 18.4 - 21.2
for gasoline: 32 – 34.8
In other words ethanol has 52% to 66% energy/volume of gasoline.
so, for E10, it would be 90 units of volume of gasoline that have 100% energy/volume of gasoline, and 10 units that have about 60% of the energy/volume of gasoline.
90*1 + 10*.6 = 96 which is a 4% drop.
E5 95 + 5*0.52 = 98 95 + 5*0.66 = 98 2% loss
E10 90 + 10*0.52 = 95 90 + 10*0.66 = 97 3-6% loss
E15 85 + 15*0.52 = 93 85 + 15*0.66 = 95 5-7% loss
E20 80 + 20*0.52 = 90 80 + 20*0.66 = 93 7-10% loss
(numbers are rounded to ones decimal place)
02-04-20, 01:55 PM
#29
eh... not great, not terrible.
energy/volume:
for ethanol 18.4 - 21.2
for gasoline: 32 – 34.8
In other words ethanol has 52% to 66% energy/volume of gasoline.
so, for E10, it would be 90 units of volume of gasoline that have 100% energy/volume of gasoline, and 10 units that have about 60% of the energy/volume of gasoline.
90*1 + 10*.6 = 96 which is a 4% drop.
E5 95 + 5*0.52 = 98 95 + 5*0.66 = 98 2% loss
E10 90 + 10*0.52 = 95 90 + 10*0.66 = 97 3-6% loss
E15 85 + 15*0.52 = 93 85 + 15*0.66 = 95 5-7% loss
E20 80 + 20*0.52 = 90 80 + 20*0.66 = 93 7-10% loss
(numbers are rounded to ones decimal place)
energy/volume:
for ethanol 18.4 - 21.2
for gasoline: 32 – 34.8
In other words ethanol has 52% to 66% energy/volume of gasoline.
so, for E10, it would be 90 units of volume of gasoline that have 100% energy/volume of gasoline, and 10 units that have about 60% of the energy/volume of gasoline.
90*1 + 10*.6 = 96 which is a 4% drop.
E5 95 + 5*0.52 = 98 95 + 5*0.66 = 98 2% loss
E10 90 + 10*0.52 = 95 90 + 10*0.66 = 97 3-6% loss
E15 85 + 15*0.52 = 93 85 + 15*0.66 = 95 5-7% loss
E20 80 + 20*0.52 = 90 80 + 20*0.66 = 93 7-10% loss
(numbers are rounded to ones decimal place)
This make sense when not exactly meeting the vehicle’s advertised mpg.
Last edited by s3v3n; 02-04-20 at 02:00 PM.
02-04-20, 02:02 PM
#30
for flex fuel cars:
E85 15 + 85*0.52 = 59 | 15 + 85*0.66 = 71 which is a 29-41% loss
so, if a flexfuel vehicle on E0 was getting 18mpg, it will get 11-13mpg on E85. OUCH....