BrettKA7

Full disclosure, I recently moved on from the 3IS to an M240i.

I’ve been reading reports/reviews and the M240i seems to get nothing but praise from all reviewers except for one negative review I found. I also noticed the F22 BMW chassis came out around the same time as the 3IS chassis. The F22 has not even one report I can find, all the way through 2020 model year, complaining about the 2-series being dated. One the other hand, the reviewers have been moaning about the 3IS since 2017, only 3 years into the product cycle.

I’ve thought a lot about this and in most ways the product cycles are similar. The 2-series interior is arguably lower rent than the 3IS (Lexus knows how to make a quality interior) and the gauge cluster has always been futuristic on the 3IS. Meanwhile, the exterior styling on the 2014 M235i is identical to the 2020 M240i except for the wheels.

How is it that everyone complains about the 3IS being long in the tooth despite actual effort being put into the 2017 refresh? Do you think it’s primarily infotainment? Drivetrain? Bias against the controversial styling? Bias against Lexus in general vs. the big 3 German brands?

JBison73

-Lack of hp
- Lack of interior soft materials
-Outdated infotainment
-only one 12v power outlet

Those seem to be the biggest complaints I see. But yeah, most reviewers have a definite bias against Lexus and an obsession over the German brands. When I see a review of an LC500 or RCF I always hear "This is seriously a Lexus?", always insinuating that Lexus sucks and is boring.

EZZ

It's a couple things. The 2 series is a small coupe and so tends to have a longer shelf life vs a compact sports sedan. Let's not kid ourselves, the 2 series interior is dated. Looks old or classic if you want but definitely not modern BMW. However, it's mission in life is to be a practical 2 door sports coupe that's fun and it's really really good at that. The competition isn't all that tough either.

The 3IS is held to the much tougher competition in the compact sports sedan space. You have the legendary 3 series, C class, A4 and new Guilia, G70 and Jag. It also has the Q50 and TLX not to mention Tesla Model 3 which outsells all of the segment combined. Given how modern the new 3 series C class and G70 are along with the spaceship Tesla, the IS seems very outdated. The performance also hasn't kept up. The mid trim M340, C43 AMG, S4, and G70 all do 0-60 in the mid/low 4 sec range which is much faster than the highest end spec of the IS. Given all this, the IS hasn't aged well in this space.

davyjordi

there's definitely a double standard when it comes to japanese luxury marques (and lexus is really the only viable one left) vs the european competition. lexus could build the most amazing vehicle and as someone posted above, someone would question the validity of the product as people do with the LC.

that said, i think that power has a lot to do with it -- toyota/lexus have been historically very conservative with regard to powertrain improvements because reliability/dependability are at the top of their priority list. many do indeed turn to lexus because they know they are buying a car that will actually last without major problems for years to come and lexus isn't going to give up the reputation any time soon.

signdetres

Most reviewers don't truly form opinions for themselves and just regurgitate what they hear other, more established reviewers say and like others mentioned, there's definitely a bias towards the European luxury marques.

JNP1227

iTrader: (1)

Honestly speaking- the body and styling of this car beats a lot of other cars in its class 340, S4, C300, etc. Very unique design by Lexus.

However, if you have driven other cars like the 340, S4, etc you will quickly realize it lacks in the power department. Some people may think or you dont need that much power etc- regardless of what anyone says facts state Lexus IS behind in the performance area for good reason. On a positive note - I believe they just released that the IS 500 will be deputing with the 5.0 V8 which will be the last year they make the N/A V8. Waiting to see what they pack in the new twin turbo V6.

wthrman2

I think its because they have nothing else to complain about Lexus....They are almost perfect!!

Even the mouse/pad that everyone *****es about, I don't see any problem with the one I had on my two IS and not on my current RC! The only thing I dislike with my RC compared to my IS is that I am now unable to browse through a folder while a car is in motion. With my IS, I would just put the cursor on the "big box" that showed the artist and the list of songs in that folder would open and I could select a particular song. I can't do that with my RC

I love the interior of the IS/RC as well, it is just perfect for my body type and love the layout and how everything is easily accessible. Seeing the new "touch everything" on the new Golf makes me cringe!!

tofuprod

I echo posts 5 and 7 here.

I love the Gen 3IS design - I'll never forget back in late 2013, when I saw the 2014 first out on the road, I had no idea what it was as I glanced driving by. I had to slow down and did a quadruple take when I saw it was a Lexus.

Fast forward to the present, the lady still loves her 3rd gen IS as if it were day one.

Gorgeous cars and in my opinion, no matter what trim - a blast to drive.

Jazzrock

It's a car forum. It goes with the territory.

swaangin

I don't think reviewers understand what the Lexus brand is. It's for reliability / comfort and now they are touching the sports driving market as well. Lexus rarely offers latest technology and when they do, it's perfect and rarely fails. If you look at the comment section, while the reviewer is bashing Lexus, there is huge support and most people still say they would pick the Lexus.

To answer your question: Looks wise, I think the 3IS looks way better than it's competition. But, reviewers complain the design has been around since 2014. Reviewers also complain about the dated transmission (although, I might say it could use a slight revision) I am totally fine with it. I have the least desired IS (IS 250 non F sport) and I am breaking speed limits within seconds with minimal effort. I also notice, reviewers tend to have many cars and don't really drive their own because they're constantly sent out new cars from manufacturers. I don't really trust their word, tbh.

My opinion is, take what these reviewers say with a grain of salt. Go out and drive the car for yourself, do research on reliability. I was given the option to pick between a 3 series, 4 series, C class, or an IS. I want to be able to drive my car, have fun, and be able to romp on it without worrying about breaking anything. Don't care for unnecessary technology. I probably won't leave the Lexus brand unless I ever choose to lease.

ABGLexus

It's 2020, you have to stay competitive. You can't be living in the past and thinking you can get away with launching a 2019/2020 car with no apple carplay. When you have that mindset, other competitors will beat you to it. In my case my 2019 IS still had a 7" screen when I opted out for navigation.......

Rhydg1

They used to offer the latest tech. They were pretty early with the self parking stuff, and the ISF was once of the first to offer a more than 6 speed gearbox with it's 8 speed.

arentz07

Moving from one 2016 model-year car to another, I will say there are things that were nice about the Lexus but also notable omissions. I miss having the actual numerical read-out of tire pressures, the digital gauge cluster, and a heated steering wheel. I also liked how everything in the car had a very consistent, well-made feel throughout. The interior materials are great. I noticed some above saying there was a lack of soft plastics... but I'll echo what BrettKA7 that it's a huge step above what BMW put into the 2-series, and for that matter, even the 3-series. In both cars, there's this cheap thin headliner, grainier-looking plastic, and in models with the lower-level spec leather, seats that are not nearly as soft or smooth as what the IS offers. Oh, and the in-car nav system in the Lexus is actually good. Graphically, it looks dated compared to the system in my GTI, but the actual route guidance and capability of the system to search for destinations is much better than in the GTI.

However, the Lexus didn't have proper smartphone integration (something I have now in a car whose MSRP new was over $10k lower than my IS 300 AWD F Sport). I also think it's annoying that Lexus waited until the 2018 model year to give the IS things like a G-meter and a redundant digital clock. It drove my wife crazy that the Lexus had an analog clock - I liked it simply because it was a different stylistic choice, but she found it arcane, as I think we don't own a single analog clock to this day. The capacitive-touch temperature sliders also got old after a while. Maybe I want to just change the temperature 1-2 degrees - in that case, it's a little clumsy to use the sliders, so I just ended up touching the buttons. And, good nav system aside, I think we all know the infotainment system's backbone was nothing new in a Lexus when the IS came out.

Oh, and despite the fact that I absolutely loved the way the IS's interior seemed very "fitted", I've seen it said on the internet as well as heard people I have given a ride to saying the IS is tight inside. It's true - my GTI that I have now is shorter than the IS by a decent margin, yet it has more legroom, headroom, AND shoulder room by an equally significant margin. On top of that, it doesn't have a massive center tunnel and console like the IS. I know it's not an apples-to-apples comparison, but that doesn't stop people from making the comparison.

Really I think the "outdated" sentiment comes largely from the powertrains and lack of Android Auto and Apple CarPlay. Journalists (and even shoppers, I think) like to focus on those two things. "Well the BMW 3-series gets better gas mileage and has CarPlay. Why would I buy the Lexus?" I have some coworkers who really, actually think this way about cars. I don't blame them - maybe they just want to go to work and be able to listen to podcasts or Spotify or whatever... using an interface that works seamlessly with their cars.

Looking back, I think what I actually miss the most about the Lexus was just being able to depend on it, as well as the refined ride. Nothing. Ever. Broke. In 40,000 miles, the only "issues" I had were minor rattles that happened early on in the cars life and never returned after being fixed. Since I got the GTI, I've already had one rattle pop up that I would describe as "severe", with the sunroof - not even playing music at a moderate volume would have been enough to cover up the noise. I had to clean the sunroof frame and apply silicone grease to the entire sunroof seal to make it stop. Right after that, another intermittent tick starting happening, but it's not the sunroof - the noise doesn't change if I open the sunroof. With the Lexus, I couldn't imagine anything like that happening.

Don't get me wrong - I absolutely love the GTI, but I do worry about it quite a bit. I think what makes it worth it is the performance. That's something the Lexus was lacking - a quick-shifting transmission and a more decent MPG rating. The MPG is probably down to the weight of the IS. However, using an 9-year-old six-speed auto in the 2014 IS AWD models still strikes me as a weird decision when BMW was simultaneously using the ZF 8-speed with Audi also using a 7-speed dual-clutch transmission in the A4, to name a couple more examples of more modern transmissions. The 6-speed was definitely smooth and wasn't a total buzz-kill in spirited driving, but I am still, frankly, amused at how much better the DSG in my GTI is in many ways. Smooth? Yes, other than at very low speeds. Quick? Yes, and the only thing I've driven that's quicker is a PDK. So, even ignoring those more expensive competitors, the transmission seemed outdated compared to something much cheaper.

I definitely will miss the Lexus and could see myself in another one in the future. In fact, I am still contemplating the idea of picking up an RC F down the road when the post-refresh ones (2020 and up) start to become cheaper. When I drove that car, I still think I came away with a sense that it was the most "solid" feeling car I have even experienced. Everything felt very tight going around turns - little body roll, no slop, very quiet. Lexus does that "solid" feeling very well, but, when it comes to tech, they seem to be a little behind at the moment. Just... don't take that statement to mean the IS is a bad car. It's absolutely a good one!

E46CT

No multi paragraph explanation needed. It's simple: when new BMWs come out, they're at least a generation or two ahead in terms of tech and engineering, in many aspects. So while they can be more unreliable, they age better in terms of being "fresh" 5 years down. Also the IS has a more radical design inside and out which also ages cars faster. While BMW and other euro makes tend to have conservative designs which age better.

Not to say I even like new BMWs. Cause I mostly don't. I'd rather fly under the radar nowadays. I don't care about being a bro mobile anymore. I actually really love the new Venza that was just announced.

EZZ

I disagree with your take on the styling. The reviewers say the powertrain and infotainment are outdated. They usually have great things to say about the styling and interior design (not outdated). Case in point, the G20 stole the Lexus IS rear end. The IS is the best looking car in its segment still and thats because it was styled differently from the beginning.

The issue with it being outdated was that there was no real powertrain upgrade with the mid-model refresh. BMW went with the upgraded inline 6 with the 340...Lexus replaced its dinosaur 2.5L with an okay but not class leading 2L turbo and did nothing for the 3.5L. If you want to win enthusiast hearts, you gotta give them a competitive powertrain. Most of the original enthusiasts here seemed to have left and gone to other manufacturers because they couldn't get what they wanted from Lexus.