nitroracer

Hey all,

Recently installed 18x8 Motegi MR131Traklite/Alpin 225/40R-18 Alpin PA4 combo on my IS 350 F Sport AWD from Tire Rack. Immediately I felt vibrations at 70+ mph. With the prior OEM wheels that just came off, I had Conti DWS 06's that performed beautifully.

I've since taken the car to both Firestone and Discount Tire and they've found nothing out of the ordinary after a couple more Road Force spin balances. This particular winter combo was shipped from Tire Rack where they obv. are supposed to do a RFB ahead of time, install the appropriate hub-centering rings and also include the appropriate lug nuts.

The issue I'm having seems more than something isolated to one or two out-of-round tires that might have fallen outside of the quality control specs.

I'm wondering if maybe the wrong rings were installed or if the lug nuts aren't the appropriate lug nuts, because there's no way I got 4 bad wheel/tire combos sent to me.

Tire Rack is great and will send me a new set, but I'm fearful the replacements might exhibit the same issues. Tire Rack is giving me some push back in demanding I get Bare Rim Runout measurements (BRRO). In so many words, they said they don't actually know whether or not they shipped damaged wheels, or even successfully Road Force balanced the assemblies.

Anyone else have this experience with aftermarket wheels on the IS? In terms of getting them to truly center with hub-centric rings, vs lug-centric which is what the OEM wheels are?

Edit: Also of note, a couple of the wheels came with up to 2.5 oz of weights already stuck on to balance out the assembly. Most high quality shops that take pride in their work instead of just their bottom line will tell you that even as much as 2 oz on an old wheel assembly is too much, let alone 2.5 on brand spanking new.

P.S. On a side note, Discount Tire is saying that Lexus now recommend 80 ft-lbs torque, rather than 76, for 2018 IS 350.

laobo979

iTrader: (5)

You actually tested the hub ring on the hub by itself to see if it sit tight?

nitroracer

Unfortunately, no.

I made certain assumptions that Tire Rack in fact does what they say they'll do in exchange for taking my $1750.

nitroracer

Update:

After going to Firestone, Discount Tire (both of which lied and only did a regular spin balance) and than an independent shop (which did the required Road Force balance), and $300 $450 later, the independent shop (and my new go-to) solved it. Here are the Road Force Variations, in pounds:

RR: 37 -> 15
LR: 25 -> 22
RF: 31 -> 14
LF: 34 -> 19


I can't believe Tire Rack signed off on this. Needless to say, I'm never doing business with them again. Ever.

nitroracer

Update on this: Still having issues, but have ruled out the tires. The wheels are also apparently within spec, as well. Have since swapped and re-swapped my OEM wheels + DWS 06's to confirm it's not the vehicle.

Question: Is 60.06 the correct bore size, or 60.1? And does 4/100th make a difference?

For whatever reason, though these wheels are considered to be "within spec", I don't think I am getting them to center properly onto the hub. Or else the hub rings aren't enough to compensate for the type of lug bolt. I get noticeable vibrations even in the 50-60 mph range. This shouldn't be happening. The OEM setup is smooth as glass even at 85+, and even after 10k miles and the typical uneven wear of the F-Sport.

Sasnuke

The hub on 3IS is 60.1mm. Is the hub spacer bore 60.06mm? I don't think that's even a thing.
Have you had them road force balanced recently?
Are there any wheels that have a large amount of weights on them?

nitroracer

The hub spacer bore is indeed 60.06mm, it says so right on the package that was sent to me. Someone posted in the 2IS forums that 60.06 is technically exact, but 60.1 seems to be the consensus these days.

They've been re- RFB'ed multiple times. Listed here from 1st Balance -> 2nd Balance -> 3rd Balance

RR: 37 -> 15 -> 14
LR: 25 -> 22 -> 10
RF: 31 -> 14 -> 10
LF: 34 -> 19 -> 5.

If you're wondering how they were reduced so drastically, it's because the 3rd balance was actually done on a second set of Michelin's. Tire Rack swapped out the first set of Michelin's under the 60-day Satisfaction Guarantee, though it should've been done under warranty, so I got screwed here as well. They said they "took the liberty" of doing this as if it was to help me out. Actually, it was to keep their costs to an absolute minimum.

Also of note, below are the amount of 1/4oz sticky weights used on each wheel.

RR -> 10
LR -> 8
RF -> 7
LF -> 3

Three of these seem kind of excessive for a brand new wheel/tire assembly...

kj07xk

Guess I’m a bit daft. What do those numbers represent?
I’ve bought 3 sets of wheel/tire combos from them over the years, as well as separate tires, never any issue, so I’m surprised at your bad luck. The most recent set is a winter package on my 3IS right now. Runs quieter and smoother than my OEM wheels with A/S tires.

nitroracer

Those are the Road Force Variations for the respective tires. Before -> After. That was with the first set of tires. They were manufactured in 2019. They sent me a second set and filed it under the Michelin "60-Day Satisfaction Guarantee". This is my current set, manufactured in 2020, with better RFV #'s, at 14,10,10 and 5.

I've ordered from Tire Rack in the past, but never have I scrutinized the actual order that was delivered to me this much, nor had as much interaction with their Customer Service. When push comes to shove, Tire Rack is to be avoided at all costs. This has been an unmitigated disaster. I was essentially without winter wheels/tires all winter and now the snow has melted.

I can get into the nitty gritty later, but for now I'm mostly interested in finding a solution, not complaining about Tire Rack. That will come, in due time.

Sasnuke

I Google's it and apparently 60.06mm is a thing...who knew.
In any case, all literature from Toyota/Lexus states 60.1mm...but if you could get a 60.06mm on there, then that's fine, it means you have an even tighter fit.
I don't expect the hub to stay 60.1mm for it's entire lifetime...given wheels being taken on and off, brake rotors, being replaced, brakes services being done...at some point it will be s hair smaller.
I guess the question is, is the outside of the spacer the correct fit for the rim? Obviously it would be easy to put the spacer in the rim when it's off the vehicle and see if there is any play.
Where do you feel the vibration most? Steering wheel or in the seat?

nitroracer

Everywhere. Front and back.

Tire Rack swears up and down that everything checks out. I recently sent the whole order back there for them to diagnose for the umpteenth time. Bottom line is, there is a very obvious shake on the highway that gets progressively worse the faster I go, but that is completely non-existent with my OEM setup.

I just don't understand how it could be anything other than this new winter setup.

So if I sit around and do nothing, I'm out about $1750. As Tire Rack is not interested in helping and thinks their balancers are gospel (despite screwing up the original balance altogether (scroll up for more on that)), It's looking increasingly like I'll have to pursue other avenues to get a refund or resolution.

Sasnuke

I was asking where you felt the vibration as that will indicate which set of wheels it is.
If you feel the vibration in the steering wheel, then it's the front wheels.
If you feel the vibration in the seat of the drivers seat (basically your butt), then it's the rear wheels.
It helps at least narrow down the vibration from all 4 wheels to just 2 wheels.

nitroracer

I understand that. "Everywhere" was meant to imply steering wheel and seat, etc...

kj07xk

If the roads are clear, try just 1 pair at a time, with an OEM pair the other axle.
Swap front to rear, swap in one of the other new wheels, etc. See if you can narrow it down to one or two bad wheels/tires.
I did that before I found out about the inner tire wear issue with the front LCAs.

nitroracer

At this point I think that will be an exercise in futility. Have done all that already. 3 of the 4 assemblies balance to 10# or less of road force variation. That's within Lexus spec. Only one is not, at 14#. Problem is Tire Rack considers 19# or less to be within spec, so they aren't going to replace that one tire. Also, all four wheels have had their Bare Rim Runout (BRRO) checked and Tire Rack says those are "within spec".

I guess if you accept the premise of whatever "within spec" implies, then all is well and good as far as they are concerned. But here in the real world, when I mount them and drive, it's anything but. Knowing that the problem goes away with my OEM wheels/tires means I can only conclude its being caused by what Tire Rack sold me.