NVH with new winter wheel/tire install
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Hey all,
Recently installed 18x8 Motegi MR131Traklite/Alpin 225/40R-18 Alpin PA4 combo on my IS 350 F Sport AWD from Tire Rack. Immediately I felt vibrations at 70+ mph. With the prior OEM wheels that just came off, I had Conti DWS 06's that performed beautifully.
I've since taken the car to both Firestone and Discount Tire and they've found nothing out of the ordinary after a couple moreRoad Force spin balances. This particular winter combo was shipped from Tire Rack where they obv. are supposed to do a RFB ahead of time, install the appropriate hub-centering rings and also include the appropriate lug nuts.
The issue I'm having seems more than something isolated to one or two out-of-round tires that might have fallen outside of the quality control specs.
I'm wondering if maybe the wrong rings were installed or if the lug nuts aren't the appropriate lug nuts, because there's no way I got 4 bad wheel/tire combos sent to me.
Tire Rack is great and will send me a new set, but I'm fearful the replacements might exhibit the same issues. Tire Rack is giving me some push back in demanding I get Bare Rim Runout measurements (BRRO). In so many words, they said they don't actually know whether or not they shipped damaged wheels, or even successfully Road Force balanced the assemblies.
Anyone else have this experience with aftermarket wheels on the IS? In terms of getting them to truly center with hub-centric rings, vs lug-centric which is what the OEM wheels are?
Edit: Also of note, a couple of the wheels came with up to 2.5 oz of weights already stuck on to balance out the assembly. Most high quality shops that take pride in their work instead of just their bottom line will tell you that even as much as 2 oz on an old wheel assembly is too much, let alone 2.5 on brand spanking new.
P.S. On a side note, Discount Tire is saying that Lexus now recommend 80 ft-lbs torque, rather than 76, for 2018 IS 350.
Recently installed 18x8 Motegi MR131Traklite/Alpin 225/40R-18 Alpin PA4 combo on my IS 350 F Sport AWD from Tire Rack. Immediately I felt vibrations at 70+ mph. With the prior OEM wheels that just came off, I had Conti DWS 06's that performed beautifully.
I've since taken the car to both Firestone and Discount Tire and they've found nothing out of the ordinary after a couple more
The issue I'm having seems more than something isolated to one or two out-of-round tires that might have fallen outside of the quality control specs.
I'm wondering if maybe the wrong rings were installed or if the lug nuts aren't the appropriate lug nuts, because there's no way I got 4 bad wheel/tire combos sent to me.
Anyone else have this experience with aftermarket wheels on the IS? In terms of getting them to truly center with hub-centric rings, vs lug-centric which is what the OEM wheels are?
Edit: Also of note, a couple of the wheels came with up to 2.5 oz of weights already stuck on to balance out the assembly. Most high quality shops that take pride in their work instead of just their bottom line will tell you that even as much as 2 oz on an old wheel assembly is too much, let alone 2.5 on brand spanking new.
P.S. On a side note, Discount Tire is saying that Lexus now recommend 80 ft-lbs torque, rather than 76, for 2018 IS 350.
Last edited by nitroracer; 03-03-21 at 03:08 PM.
#3
Intermediate
Thread Starter
#4
Intermediate
Thread Starter
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Update:
After going to Firestone, Discount Tire (both of which lied and only did a regular spin balance) and than an independent shop (which did the required Road Force balance), and $300 $450 later, the independent shop (and my new go-to) solved it. Here are the Road Force Variations, in pounds:
RR: 37 -> 15
LR: 25 -> 22
RF: 31 -> 14
LF: 34 -> 19
I can't believe Tire Rack signed off on this. Needless to say, I'm never doing business with them again. Ever.
After going to Firestone, Discount Tire (both of which lied and only did a regular spin balance) and than an independent shop (which did the required Road Force balance), and $
RR: 37 -> 15
LR: 25 -> 22
RF: 31 -> 14
LF: 34 -> 19
I can't believe Tire Rack signed off on this. Needless to say, I'm never doing business with them again. Ever.
Last edited by nitroracer; 03-02-21 at 06:43 AM.
#5
Intermediate
Thread Starter
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Update on this: Still having issues, but have ruled out the tires. The wheels are also apparently within spec, as well. Have since swapped and re-swapped my OEM wheels + DWS 06's to confirm it's not the vehicle.
Question: Is 60.06 the correct bore size, or 60.1? And does 4/100th make a difference?
For whatever reason, though these wheels are considered to be "within spec", I don't think I am getting them to center properly onto the hub. Or else the hub rings aren't enough to compensate for the type of lug bolt. I get noticeable vibrations even in the 50-60 mph range. This shouldn't be happening. The OEM setup is smooth as glass even at 85+, and even after 10k miles and the typical uneven wear of the F-Sport.
Question: Is 60.06 the correct bore size, or 60.1? And does 4/100th make a difference?
For whatever reason, though these wheels are considered to be "within spec", I don't think I am getting them to center properly onto the hub. Or else the hub rings aren't enough to compensate for the type of lug bolt. I get noticeable vibrations even in the 50-60 mph range. This shouldn't be happening. The OEM setup is smooth as glass even at 85+, and even after 10k miles and the typical uneven wear of the F-Sport.
Last edited by nitroracer; 03-01-21 at 08:26 AM.
#6
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,260
Received 1,737 Likes
on
1,370 Posts
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
The hub on 3IS is 60.1mm. Is the hub spacer bore 60.06mm? I don't think that's even a thing.
Have you had them road force balanced recently?
Are there any wheels that have a large amount of weights on them?
Have you had them road force balanced recently?
Are there any wheels that have a large amount of weights on them?
#7
Intermediate
Thread Starter
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
They've been re- RFB'ed multiple times. Listed here from 1st Balance -> 2nd Balance -> 3rd Balance
RR: 37 -> 15 -> 14
LR: 25 -> 22 -> 10
RF: 31 -> 14 -> 10
LF: 34 -> 19 -> 5.
If you're wondering how they were reduced so drastically, it's because the 3rd balance was actually done on a second set of Michelin's. Tire Rack swapped out the first set of Michelin's under the 60-day Satisfaction Guarantee, though it should've been done under warranty, so I got screwed here as well. They said they "took the liberty" of doing this as if it was to help me out. Actually, it was to keep their costs to an absolute minimum.
Also of note, below are the amount of 1/4oz sticky weights used on each wheel.
RR -> 10
LR -> 8
RF -> 7
LF -> 3
Three of these seem kind of excessive for a brand new wheel/tire assembly...
Last edited by nitroracer; 03-02-21 at 12:59 PM.
Trending Topics
#8
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Update:
After going to Firestone, Discount Tire, and than an independent shop, and $300 later, the independent shop (and my new go-to) solved it. Here are the results:
RR: 37 -> 15
LR: 25 -> 22
RF: 31 -> 14
LF: 34 -> 19
I can't believe Tire Rack signed off on this. Needless to say, I'm never doing business with them again. Ever.
After going to Firestone, Discount Tire, and than an independent shop, and $300 later, the independent shop (and my new go-to) solved it. Here are the results:
RR: 37 -> 15
LR: 25 -> 22
RF: 31 -> 14
LF: 34 -> 19
I can't believe Tire Rack signed off on this. Needless to say, I'm never doing business with them again. Ever.
I’ve bought 3 sets of wheel/tire combos from them over the years, as well as separate tires, never any issue, so I’m surprised at your bad luck. The most recent set is a winter package on my 3IS right now. Runs quieter and smoother than my OEM wheels with A/S tires.
#9
Intermediate
Thread Starter
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Guess I’m a bit daft. What do those numbers represent?
I’ve bought 3 sets of wheel/tire combos from them over the years, as well as separate tires, never any issue, so I’m surprised at your bad luck. The most recent set is a winter package on my 3IS right now. Runs quieter and smoother than my OEM wheels with A/S tires.
I’ve bought 3 sets of wheel/tire combos from them over the years, as well as separate tires, never any issue, so I’m surprised at your bad luck. The most recent set is a winter package on my 3IS right now. Runs quieter and smoother than my OEM wheels with A/S tires.
I've ordered from Tire Rack in the past, but never have I scrutinized the actual order that was delivered to me this much, nor had as much interaction with their Customer Service. When push comes to shove, Tire Rack is to be avoided at all costs. This has been an unmitigated disaster. I was essentially without winter wheels/tires all winter and now the snow has melted.
I can get into the nitty gritty later, but for now I'm mostly interested in finding a solution, not complaining about Tire Rack. That will come, in due time.
Last edited by nitroracer; 03-01-21 at 08:34 AM.
#10
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,260
Received 1,737 Likes
on
1,370 Posts
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
The hub spacer bore is indeed 60.06mm, it says so right on the package that was sent to me. Someone posted in the 2IS forums that 60.06 is technically exact, but 60.1 seems to be the consensus these days.
They've been RFB'ed. 14#, 10#, 10# and 5#.
10,8,7,3 (numbers of) sticky weights, respectively.
They've been RFB'ed. 14#, 10#, 10# and 5#.
10,8,7,3 (numbers of) sticky weights, respectively.
In any case, all literature from Toyota/Lexus states 60.1mm...but if you could get a 60.06mm on there, then that's fine, it means you have an even tighter fit.
I don't expect the hub to stay 60.1mm for it's entire lifetime...given wheels being taken on and off, brake rotors, being replaced, brakes services being done...at some point it will be s hair smaller.
I guess the question is, is the outside of the spacer the correct fit for the rim? Obviously it would be easy to put the spacer in the rim when it's off the vehicle and see if there is any play.
Where do you feel the vibration most? Steering wheel or in the seat?
#11
Intermediate
Thread Starter
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Everywhere. Front and back.
Tire Rack swears up and down that everything checks out. I recently sent the whole order back there for them to diagnose for the umpteenth time. Bottom line is, there is a very obvious shake on the highway that gets progressively worse the faster I go, but that is completely non-existent with my OEM setup.
I just don't understand how it could be anything other than this new winter setup.
So if I sit around and do nothing, I'm out about $1750. As Tire Rack is not interested in helping and thinks their balancers are gospel (despite screwing up the original balance altogether (scroll up for more on that)), It's looking increasingly like I'll have to pursue other avenues to get a refund or resolution.
Tire Rack swears up and down that everything checks out. I recently sent the whole order back there for them to diagnose for the umpteenth time. Bottom line is, there is a very obvious shake on the highway that gets progressively worse the faster I go, but that is completely non-existent with my OEM setup.
I just don't understand how it could be anything other than this new winter setup.
So if I sit around and do nothing, I'm out about $1750. As Tire Rack is not interested in helping and thinks their balancers are gospel (despite screwing up the original balance altogether (scroll up for more on that)), It's looking increasingly like I'll have to pursue other avenues to get a refund or resolution.
Last edited by nitroracer; 03-02-21 at 06:51 AM.
#12
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,260
Received 1,737 Likes
on
1,370 Posts
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
It's all over. Tire Rack swears up and down that everything checks out. I recently sent the whole order back there for them to diagnose for the umpteenth time. Bottom line is, there is a very obvious shake on the highway that gets progressively worse the faster I go, but that is completely non-existent with my OEM setup.
I just don't understand how it could be anything other than this new winter setup.
So if I sit around and do nothing, I'm out about $1750. As Tire Rack is not interested in helping and thinks their balancers are gospel (despite screwing up the original balance altogether (scroll up for more on that)), It's looking increasingly like I'll have to pursue other avenues to get a refund.
I just don't understand how it could be anything other than this new winter setup.
So if I sit around and do nothing, I'm out about $1750. As Tire Rack is not interested in helping and thinks their balancers are gospel (despite screwing up the original balance altogether (scroll up for more on that)), It's looking increasingly like I'll have to pursue other avenues to get a refund.
If you feel the vibration in the steering wheel, then it's the front wheels.
If you feel the vibration in the seat of the drivers seat (basically your butt), then it's the rear wheels.
It helps at least narrow down the vibration from all 4 wheels to just 2 wheels.
#13
Intermediate
Thread Starter
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I was asking where you felt the vibration as that will indicate which set of wheels it is.
If you feel the vibration in the steering wheel, then it's the front wheels.
If you feel the vibration in the seat of the drivers seat (basically your butt), then it's the rear wheels.
It helps at least narrow down the vibration from all 4 wheels to just 2 wheels.
If you feel the vibration in the steering wheel, then it's the front wheels.
If you feel the vibration in the seat of the drivers seat (basically your butt), then it's the rear wheels.
It helps at least narrow down the vibration from all 4 wheels to just 2 wheels.
#14
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
If the roads are clear, try just 1 pair at a time, with an OEM pair the other axle.
Swap front to rear, swap in one of the other new wheels, etc. See if you can narrow it down to one or two bad wheels/tires.
I did that before I found out about the inner tire wear issue with the front LCAs.
Swap front to rear, swap in one of the other new wheels, etc. See if you can narrow it down to one or two bad wheels/tires.
I did that before I found out about the inner tire wear issue with the front LCAs.
#15
Intermediate
Thread Starter
![Default](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
If the roads are clear, try just 1 pair at a time, with an OEM pair the other axle.
Swap front to rear, swap in one of the other new wheels, etc. See if you can narrow it down to one or two bad wheels/tires.
I did that before I found out about the inner tire wear issue with the front LCAs.
Swap front to rear, swap in one of the other new wheels, etc. See if you can narrow it down to one or two bad wheels/tires.
I did that before I found out about the inner tire wear issue with the front LCAs.
I guess if you accept the premise of whatever "within spec" implies, then all is well and good as far as they are concerned. But here in the real world, when I mount them and drive, it's anything but. Knowing that the problem goes away with my OEM wheels/tires means I can only conclude its being caused by what Tire Rack sold me.