Sorry, another IS500 related post.
I need to decide between IS500 and Model 3 Performance (M3P).

Here is the list of comparison between the two:

1. $65k (reasonable assumption with possible lease/purchase deals and promotions) for IS500, $56k (before either $10k or $7.5k Federal Tax Credit pending outcome from the Congress) for M3P. Set price,
2. NA V8 vs Electric motors
3. RWD with LSD vs. AWD with open differential
4. 472 hp vs 480 hp
5. 4.5 sec vs 3.1 sec
6. 19" wheel vs 20" wheel
7. Heated/Ventilated seats vs Heated only
8. Sunroof vs Glass roof (no sunroof)
9. Common Safety Features (lane keeping, Advanced Cruise Control, Emergency braking.etc) vs. Autopilot (optional $10k Fully Self Driving upgrade)
10. Top Tier exterior and interior design and build quality vs Bland and not inspiring exterior and too simple/minimalistic interior design with cheaper feel and finish
11. Limited production (might not be able to purchase new in the future) vs. will be mainstream and will be available with longer range/higher performance level with cheaper options
12. 350 miles or less range (personal assumption) vs 315 miles range (however actual real life range was reported around 250 miles)
13. inclement weather (rain or snow) capable but with caution vs. all weather capable with less driver capability and skill level
14. 5+ year ownership potential due to styling, build quality, V8 RWD, Lexus reliability, etc. vs. maybe 3 year or less (better range/ performance models will be available with higher quality and better eye catching exterior design), less than ideal build quality
15. Higher Top End power vs insane acceleration up to 90-100 mph and it quickly dies down after that.
16. DIY maintenance fun vs Not DIY friendly
17. 3750 ish lbs vs 4250 lbs
18. Framed windows vs. Frameless windows
19. No anti temper or accident recording feature vs. Sentry mode with lots of cameras monitor and record everything while parking and driving
20. Standard warranty coverage and process vs. Tesla charges $195 minimum diagnostic fee if the issue does not require replacement parts, such as rattle, noise, vibration severe enough for your ears, but not enough to require replacement parts even within the new car warranty.

What do you guys think?

 

You need to test drive both to find your preference. I had a 3IS for 60k miles and now own a M3P for about 20k miles. Here are my observations:

Performance:

If you punch it from a roll at 80mph, you'll outrun an M3 to about 115mph then he'll reel you in and pass you at ~125mph (plenty of You-tube videos to prove this to) so you know past 115mph, it runs out of breath. From anything a stoplight to 60mph, you'll fly away from an RCF easily. From a handling perspective, my IS350 had wonderful handling feel at anything 8/10ths and under. Over this, you get bad understeer. The M3P feels almost as good but it has much higher limits so much more capable. Plus the computer does all the sorting so you just point and shoot. In everyday driving, the MP3 will be much much faster as a daily.

Build Quality and Reliability:

My IS350 after 60k miles was perfect. No rattles and the only issue was a battery went bad at 40k miles. My Tesla had a bad weather stripe and FM module when i first received the car and was fixed but its been perfect since then. It has some rattles at colder temps but seems they disappear when it gets warmer When you drive the car, you can tell its not a Lexus (solid tank). My panel gaps aren't bad but every Tesla varies so you have to be careful when you take delivery. My friends M3P had a lot of gaps but he had them fix it and now it looks great. Also, Tesla paint sucks. Many just get PPF on the front and deal with it. In terms of reliability, CR gave the Model 3 recommended as its long-term reliability is considered good. After initial build quality issues, the car doesn't break because not much to go wrong with it. Its a super simple car mechanically outside of the tech thats provided.

Cost:

Its not much of a contest here as the Tesla requires no powertrain maintenance. It requires an air filter change (can be done by owner) after 2 years and a brake fluid change after 2-3 years depending on miles. Brakes last about 100k miles with non-track usage as you'll barely use them due to regen braking. Tires will last about 20k miles. Every 15k miles, I save about $2.5-3k worth of gas as electricity is dirt cheap (free for me as i have solar). Also, I haven't been to the dealer since they replaced my FM module at the very beginning of my ownership. If you want it serviced, you can use mobile service where they come to your house so pretty convenient.

The IS350 wasn't exactly cheap to maintain. It requires synth oil and ate tires every 15k miles (maybe they resolved in the newer versions). I had the RCF bushings done to mitigate the tire damage but tires only lasted about 20k miles still. I ate through brakes every 15k miles until I went aftermarket (Akebono ASPs). Also, the gas cost was bad...18mpg was all i got and i can imagine the IS500 will be worse.

Misc:

Other things you mentioned were the windows...Model 3 windows aren't one of the issues on the forum so not a big deal. The 20 inch wheels are heavy and kinda suck...make the tires expensive. Many owners change to 19 inch forged which improves range The glass roof also is fine and doesn't get hot...i live in so-cal and never had an issue even in 100 degree temps. The new Model 3 also comes with a heat pump so you probably only lose about 20% of range on a super cold day vs. a warm day. The tech overall will be better on the Tesla...Sentry mode and Dashcam are unbelievable good and autopilot will truly amaze you on highway. The interface is a million times better than the Lexus infotainment but the drawback is that it doesn't have CarPlay or Android Auto.

The Tesla superchargers truly remove all range anxiety...the car tells you if you are getting low and routes you to the nearest open charger so it nannies the energy usage pretty well. You can see how many stalls are open on the nearby chargers so its never a guessing game. However, its going to take 20-30 minutes to charge to full on a road trip so nothing beats a 5 min fillup. Finally, you're going to see maybe one or two IS500s per month while i have about 10 Model 3s in my neighborhood already. Hardly exclusive.

So bottom line is if Performance and Cost are primary factors, the M3P is better. If you want a better made car with all the frills of a tier 1 luxury make with impeccable build quality, the Lexus is easily the choice. Above all this though, test drive both and see what you like better.

 

Honestly, I would get what I feel that I would want to drive everyday. But for me I wouldn't get either because of the following:
IS500

• Not bold enough, I don't feel the aggressive factor that the RC-F and GS-F had. They both had their unique factor. I honestly think that they could have made things a bit different on the body that makes it stand out than it's non "F" counterparts. Don't get me wrong, the looks are good but I would prefer a RC-F/GS-F between the "F" models.
• Interior could use a better update like a colored steering wheel or a GT3 style wheel to give it more of a unique factor of being limited.

I've never felt so "at-home" in a 3IS than any other luxury car. I've sat in BMW, Benz, Audi, Acura and Infiniti and they aren't the most relaxing car to sit in for long periods of time.

M3P

• They all look the same inside and out
• It's ELECTRIC (Hawaii doesn't have much charging stations, heck even access to a quick charging station is hard so another reason why I'm staying away for now)
• Horror stories of stranded owners at charging stations in the middle of the night
• It's silent, I honestly can't stand a silent car. Especially if people can't hear you, they can't see you. I have seen way too many close calls between Tesla drivers and other drivers and both are always at fault. (In my mind I think Tesla drivers are the next BMW douche drivers)

But other than that to repeat myself, honestly just get what you feel like owning. You may end up not liking it down the line and decide to get the other car but at least you did enjoyed it while it lasted. I don't listen to what other people say in what I should own.

 

Odd final choices -- growling V8 vs silent torque monster. These vehicles are nothing alike though. If you're really hung up on these options I think, if possible, you need to drive both before making a final decision.

As for me? I'd pick the IS500. There's going to be a time [probably sooner than we all expect] where electric vehicles will become more normalized and/or dominant on the road. That time isn't now. And that being the case, I want to enjoy combustion engines while they're still around. The IS500 will probably be the last compact luxury sedan to offer an n/a V8. I like the way the 2UR sounds and I like the feel of an n/a V8. I wouldn't pass that up.

Electric cars are great commuters, but I feel nothing when I drive them. I haven't driven an M3P, so I can't speak on that first hand. I've driven a Model X and a Chevy Bolt, and I was given a ride in a Model S once. I liked the Bolt's interior better. I guess because it felt slightly more normal in comparison to the Tesla's overly simple interior. Build quality and design aside... they basically felt the same. Once you get over the instant torque thrill, electric vehicles just don't do anything for me.

 

IS500 hands down. NA V8 in that "sleeper"? If only I had the money.
Haven't been in a M3P either, but I've been in an S and did not like the experience at all. Torque is insane but I hate the interior and the drive.
Echoing Racer above, I'm gonna miss combustion engines as they phase out, especially with the normalization of small block engines w/ spinny boys.
I had a UX250H as a loaner this weekend while my IS250 was getting its transmission fluid flushed. While the CVT and hybrid were definitely great and comfortable, I couldn't wait to get behind my V6 again.
Hoping I can grab an IS500 someday, it's pretty much ideal to me.

 

I thought this latest drive from Matt Farah was interesting. If you upgrade the suspension in a Model 3 Performance, you get Porsche Turbo levels of speed and handling. The M3P is nothing like a Model S. It's small, relatively light for and EV and very nimble. The Tesla is definitely in a different performance category than the IS500.

 

Modify an already unreliable car and risk voiding the warranty? That's an option for someone who has plenty of time and money to burn.

 

CR says it has good to average reliability and recommends the Model 3. It's not a Model S or X. The powertrain on Tesla's are very reliable and resilient. The knock on the Model 3 is the quality isn't nearly as good as the other premium makes.

Also, the car had no powertrain upgrades so would not void any warranties. All suspension upgrades because honestly, the Model 3 doesn't need a power upgrade. It's already the fastest in its class. Did you even watch the video or just start bashing a car because of your dislike for Tesla

 

M3P hands down if you don't mind the charging thing. As EZZ says, seems it's not that big of an issue.

Keep in mind the IS is still an old old old OLD chassis now. I checked the tech docs for the 21 IS and confirmed there wasn't any changes to the structure / body in white vs even a 2014. It was nice in its day, but in 2021 you're still dealing with a very old car. Despite the updated (and old itself) powertrain. I wouldn't get the new IS unless you were an IS super super (two supers) fan. If you're going to cross shop the M3P, cross it against an M340i or M3/M4. Start with a new platform and work your way up. I wouldn't buy/lease new a 6, now 7 year old platform.

 

I think the 500 is more an enthusiast-oriented vehicle. Sure, the 3 is fun to drive, but it is not going to have the same build quality, character, or styling as the IS. The IS trades efficiency and acceleration for some good ole internal combustion power. I think they're vastly different cars. You'd have to test drive. (I've owned an IS 300 AWD, and driven IS 350 RWD, IS 350 AWD, RC F, and both RWD and AWD Model 3.)

 

I don’t understand why so place so much emphasis on the chassis/platform being old. If the car’s structural rigidity and handling dynamics are good and comparable to it’s peers, why does the age of the platform matter? What exactly do you “work your way up” to in a platform after you’ve purchased a vehicle?

 

Two extreme ends of the spectrum. With the quality issues of Tesla, it's not a consideration for me.

 

If you look at the typical buyer of the Performance Model 3, they are former M3, Porsche, AMG owners on the forums. There is actually a sizeable price difference between the AWD and Performance versions so only enthusiasts typically pick the high end model. I also agree that only enthusiasts will pick the IS500 as its an old school V8 with all the bells and whistles so its going to be an instant classic. Both are vastly different but both are targeted at the enthusiast market but with vastly different tastes and you can't go wrong with either. I'm not going to trade in my M3P for an IS500 but I think if it was the other way around, I wouldn't trade in my IS500 for an M3P.

My only disappointment in Lexus is that they should have released this in 2015 vs. giving us the bull*** about the V8 not fitting (as we can plainly see it does fit). The other caveat is the price as the M3P is about $57k. If the IS500 is at $70k, the M3P is a far better deal.

 

Agree, a M3P in particular is more enthusiast-focused - just saying, in general, I think IS is more suitable for an enthusiast, but the Model 3 is a bit, let's say, more friendly to non-car people, too?

There's no way a base IS 500 is $70k when an RC F is $66k. The F has fancier brakes and cooling and upgraded seats, and there's also some prestige with having the F brand that F Sport does not have. My prediction is that it'll start right at $60k or just under, but will probably come fully-loaded or close.

 

You will definitely feel more exclusive with IS500 but since it’s not ISF only enthusiastic will know its uniqueness. Tesla not so much it’s dime a dozen and every corners I see more Model 3 than 3IS. Tesla has a lot of nice tech features and they keep adding, I do like new blind spot cameras they added in the latest software.