IS500 Bumper Separation - Please post your images/info for data collection
#136
Pole Position
I'm not going to waste my time. I don't even have this issue on my car. Like I said before, I agree with Frank and think this solution is acceptable. It's not the engineering you wanted, but it is still engineering. I just find it amusing how everyone's still complaining. I have to remind myself, this is the same group that cries when they get a little chip in their BBS wheels.
#137
drives cars
I'm not going to waste my time. I don't even have this issue on my car. Like I said before, I agree with Frank and think this solution is acceptable. It's not the engineering you wanted, but it is still engineering. I just find it amusing how everyone's still complaining. I have to remind myself, this is the same group that cries when they get a little chip in their BBS wheels.
Please let's keep this on topic and productive.
#138
I know on paper using a piece of plastic Ziptie and some epoxy sounds like a janky fix, but functionally speaking there's no reason it shouldn't work fine.
Our bumper is made up of plastic, so is the retainer. Without a complete redesign of the retainer and bumper, this is a functional fix to add more surface area to hold up the bumper tabs.
Is it ideal? No.
Is it pretty? No.
Will it hold? Most likely so.
Will take now take responsibility for it? Absolutely.
We have a super low volume car, probably less than 6,000 units sold over 3 model years. The higher ups at Lexus genuinely have better things to do and other cars that make them more profit. The fact that they even answered the phone for us, let alone take the time to complete a real repair and own up to the mistake, is honestly way more than anyone could've bargained for.
Most manufacturers in this situation would've told us to kick rocks because this isn't a safety concern. They did something, it's functional, and I'm sure it'll suffice for 95% of owners with zero issues.
The other 5% can install turnbuckles I'm sure.
Our bumper is made up of plastic, so is the retainer. Without a complete redesign of the retainer and bumper, this is a functional fix to add more surface area to hold up the bumper tabs.
Is it ideal? No.
Is it pretty? No.
Will it hold? Most likely so.
Will take now take responsibility for it? Absolutely.
We have a super low volume car, probably less than 6,000 units sold over 3 model years. The higher ups at Lexus genuinely have better things to do and other cars that make them more profit. The fact that they even answered the phone for us, let alone take the time to complete a real repair and own up to the mistake, is honestly way more than anyone could've bargained for.
Most manufacturers in this situation would've told us to kick rocks because this isn't a safety concern. They did something, it's functional, and I'm sure it'll suffice for 95% of owners with zero issues.
The other 5% can install turnbuckles I'm sure.
While the IS 500 is almost assuredly a low-volume model, doesn't it share these parts with the IS 350 (which is much higher volume in comparison)? If that's the case, then the need for a proper fix is even more critical.
As for engineering cost and time - a more durable piece could be designed that serves the place of the zip ties and a kit could be produced for not much more than the cost that's already been sunk into this kludge considering the only real difference between what's been offered and designing proper pieces to replace the zip tie pieces would take an engineer minutes at most. They already have the necessary dimensions having figured this out with the zip ties, so it's not like there's a need for much (if any) trial and error testing in designing a more robust piece.
Lexus is a brand that is built upon various concepts, one of which is the idea of quality in craftsmanship and construction. This fix betrays those concepts on every level - I find it difficult to believe that this 'fix' is actually what Lexus chose to be, and act as, a reflection of their commitment to quality.
Hopefully this turns out to be a joke or, if not, Lexus realizes the wrong turn they've made with this low-quality kludge.
The following 3 users liked this post by HydrantHunter:
#139
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
IDK, I am an engineer and I just can't get behind the justification on this. I don't have an IS500 but I'd be happy to support a fix for this from an aftermarket perspective if I get the chance (don't have access to a car with this issue).
Toyota pioneered Kaizen and part of that is poka-yoke which is the idea of making an assembly process mistake proof. There is nothing poka-yoked about this fix and leaves a lot of room for human error, using the wrong type of glue, forgetting the primer etc. Even if the fix was 100% functionally acceptable which I don't think it is the likelihood of a tech doing it wrong is very high. It's really sad that whatever processes they have in place for TSB's has allowed this to make it all the way through.
Toyota pioneered Kaizen and part of that is poka-yoke which is the idea of making an assembly process mistake proof. There is nothing poka-yoked about this fix and leaves a lot of room for human error, using the wrong type of glue, forgetting the primer etc. Even if the fix was 100% functionally acceptable which I don't think it is the likelihood of a tech doing it wrong is very high. It's really sad that whatever processes they have in place for TSB's has allowed this to make it all the way through.
The following 6 users liked this post by ILikeBlue:
DLPTony (03-08-24),
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LexLight (03-09-24),
ljerr2 (03-08-24),
Longwaldo (03-08-24),
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#140
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
I'm curious how new cars coming off the assembly line are being addressed. Will they perform this fix before installing the new bumpers? Will they install modified bumpers and modified retainers with the fix already incorporated? Or will everything be business as usual and only address the problem when it crops up on new cars?
Last edited by ILikeBlue; 03-12-24 at 10:03 PM.
#141
Intermediate
I don't think they'll do this fix on the line because then they'd have to xhange the bumpwr part number, they'll probably handle it as a case by case basis on cars that's come in. But I know this is something that will be notes for future cars. With the lifecycle of the IS500 most likely coming to a close at the end of 2024, odds are we'll never see any changes if they happen. But there's nothing that says they won't redesign upgrades retainer clips or something like that in the future for us. This is just the current fix
The following users liked this post:
ljerr2 (03-08-24)
#142
Lead Lap
Ilikeblue...i know everyone is not happy but i personally wanted to thank you for your efforts. I know my situation is minor and will hold off as its very mild in my situation but at least we have something from Lexus. It doesnt give me the confidence it will be a forever fix but its something.
The following 7 users liked this post by wthrman2:
bbong (03-11-24),
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#143
That's important to know because I've heard of many on the fence waiting on a fix before they pull the trigger on a new IS 500. Then again it would be nice to know what percentage of IS 500 owners are dealing with bumper separation right now. Guess we could start a poll ...?
#144
Ilikeblue...i know everyone is not happy but i personally wanted to thank you for your efforts. I know my situation is minor and will hold off as its very mild in my situation but at least we have something from Lexus. It doesnt give me the confidence it will be a forever fix but its something.
#145
Thank you, ILikeBlue and everyone else involved in getting a fix. I remember prior to this I talked to my service advisor about the potential of this happening and he was convinced people were scraping their front end on the curbs or parking blocks. So at least we know they will take responsibility now. This fix, while not optimal, I also feel is sufficient. While I hope they may have an even better fix in the future, I'm not gonna let it ruin my enjoyment of the car.
The following 2 users liked this post by Renault:
Carolina50 (03-08-24),
jsch222 (03-09-24)
#146
My question is, as someone who has this issue to a lesser extent than most, is it mandatory? I'd rather not get it when my gapping is minimal, since the solution is not all that appealing
#147
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
A TSB is not mandatory, The dealer offering to fix it for free may expire however at some point in the future when out of warranty
The following users liked this post:
Kanpai (03-09-24)
#148
If it were me, I'd wait a bit unless I was approaching the warranty period noted in the TSB. Even then, I'd have to think about it, too. Some seem to show the sag a lot more than others. I'm not sure why that is unless it is possibly related to how hard the car is driven, which induces stress and/or flex?
#150