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First test run today. I’m actually gonna bring the car to@cyfi66 this weekend and let him tinker around. Our shop foreman wanted to take a look. He loves the idea but it’s gonna take some fine tuning to get the gaps right. It is holding the bumper a bit more secure. Might be running into an issue due to the TSB that’s been done, since they applied some JB weld at the seam between the bumper cover and the tab that clips into the bracket, it might be causing some interference. I’ll let @cyfi66 work his magic, but it might be a case of making a set for TSB cars and a set for non TSB cars. I won’t speak for him, but that’d be my guess. Our foreman thinks that the TSB adhesive is causing me a problem for using these blocks right now.
First test run today. I’m actually gonna bring the car to@cyfi66 this weekend and let him tinker around. Our shop foreman wanted to take a look. He loves the idea but it’s gonna take some fine tuning to get the gaps right. It is holding the bumper a bit more secure. Might be running into an issue due to the TSB that’s been done, since they applied some JB weld at the seam between the bumper cover and the tab that clips into the bracket, it might be causing some interference. I’ll let @cyfi66 work his magic, but it might be a case of making a set for TSB cars and a set for non TSB cars. I won’t speak for him, but that’d be my guess. Our foreman thinks that the TSB adhesive is causing me a problem for using these blocks right now.
It makes sense that all that goo and glued on plastic tie spacer would interfere compared to a virgin bumper and retainer. I hope it can get worked out. If I had the issue I would wait on getting the TSB.
First test run today. I’m actually gonna bring the car to@cyfi66 this weekend and let him tinker around. Our shop foreman wanted to take a look. He loves the idea but it’s gonna take some fine tuning to get the gaps right. It is holding the bumper a bit more secure. Might be running into an issue due to the TSB that’s been done, since they applied some JB weld at the seam between the bumper cover and the tab that clips into the bracket, it might be causing some interference. I’ll let @cyfi66 work his magic, but it might be a case of making a set for TSB cars and a set for non TSB cars. I won’t speak for him, but that’d be my guess. Our foreman thinks that the TSB adhesive is causing me a problem for using these blocks right now.
I know all of this was born out of necessity (and frustration), but is it wrong to admit that I’m excited to read these posts and the progress?!
@cyfi66 was kind enough to leave his sweet GSF outside while he works on some new bumper blocks. Hopefully this works so we can get a relatively easy solution out to the community. My contingency is just doing the turnbuckle and never thinking about it again but I really want an easy fix for everyone.
Thanks to Pittsy I was able to get my hands on the actual car and make some adjustments.
From what I saw I'm leaning towards thinking there's something wrong with how the bumper is molded from the factory. Without the bracket holding anything in place you could see the bumper flex in a way that would push the affected area out and away from the fender anytime I pushed the bumper into place near the front emblem. If I let the bumper relax the affected area would go back up flush to the fender. So essentially the clip in question is always under tension and it seemed apparent on the drivers side and not really on the passenger side. There maybe some slight misshape with the bumper?
I don't think the JB weld on the bumper is helping anything and I wouldn't recommend anyone getting it applied. The bumper bracket rests against the JB weld area and interferes. My guess is that the JB weld wasn't fully cured when his dealership put the bumper back on because it was clearly indented where the bracket touches. I'm not sure they'd have been able to get the bumper to clip on at all if the JB weld was fully cured or worse if it was still wet it could glue the bumper to the car. See the red circled area where the bumper bracket is being jammed into the JB weld.
Also you could tell the front clip was barely grabbing on the corner. With the support block in place the clip is fully engaged.
The original support block was definitely hitting the JB weld so I was able to make a version with clearance for the JB weld, but still had to grind a little bit of the JB weld off. Even with an unmodified bracket the JB weld is interfering and making it harder to clip the bumper in place.
I also added clearance in some areas and a ramp in the middle to give the clip a little extra engagement. It made the bumper clip in extremely firmly and I think it will hold much better than OEM and much better than the TSB mod. Everything looked perfect when Pittsy picked up his car (did both driver and passenger side) so we are going to give it some time to see what happens, but I feel good about it holding strong.
To mastershibe's point the block for sure increases the grab on the clip, but the bumper tabs are really strong and I don't see there being enough tension on the clip to rip anything. It's difficult to unclip the bumper just by pulling but a small plastic trim tool in the gap easily releases it, which Pitssy mentioned is good practice anyways and what his tech does with all bumpers.
In summary:
The updated support block worked extremely well and now we just need to wait and see if it holds up.
The support block I made has clearance for the TSB JB weld, but may interfere depending on how much JB weld your dealership decides to put on. The same support block will work with non TSB cars so only one version needed. If you had the TSB done you'd need to replace the bumper bracket.
The support block is extremely easy to install (if you haven't had the TSB done). Requires removing four pop clips, one 10mm screw and releasing the 2 bumper/fender clips. I've documented all the steps with pictures and video for future reference.
Based on what I saw I don't recommend getting the TSB done. If anything do the turnbuckle mod or wait to see if this support block works.
There is possible an issue with the shape of the bumper cover itself causing too much tension on the front drivers side clip.
If the passenger side isn't popping out just leave it alone. This might affect just the drivers side for some reason.
Thanks to Pittsy I was able to get my hands on the actual car and make some adjustments.
From what I saw I'm leaning towards thinking there's something wrong with how the bumper is molded from the factory. Without the bracket holding anything in place you could see the bumper flex in a way that would push the affected area out and away from the fender anytime I pushed the bumper into place near the front emblem. If I let the bumper relax the affected area would go back up flush to the fender. So essentially the clip in question is always under tension and it seemed apparent on the drivers side and not really on the passenger side. There maybe some slight misshape with the bumper?
I don't think the JB weld on the bumper is helping anything and I wouldn't recommend anyone getting it applied. The bumper bracket rests against the JB weld area and interferes. My guess is that the JB weld wasn't fully cured when his dealership put the bumper back on because it was clearly indented where the bracket touches. I'm not sure they'd have been able to get the bumper to clip on at all if the JB weld was fully cured or worse if it was still wet it could glue the bumper to the car. See the red circled area where the bumper bracket is being jammed into the JB weld.
Also you could tell the front clip was barely grabbing on the corner. With the support block in place the clip is fully engaged.
The original support block was definitely hitting the JB weld so I was able to make a version with clearance for the JB weld, but still had to grind a little bit of the JB weld off. Even with an unmodified bracket the JB weld is interfering and making it harder to clip the bumper in place.
I also added clearance in some areas and a ramp in the middle to give the clip a little extra engagement. It made the bumper clip in extremely firmly and I think it will hold much better than OEM and much better than the TSB mod. Everything looked perfect when Pittsy picked up his car (did both driver and passenger side) so we are going to give it some time to see what happens, but I feel good about it holding strong.
To mastershibe's point the block for sure increases the grab on the clip, but the bumper tabs are really strong and I don't see there being enough tension on the clip to rip anything. It's difficult to unclip the bumper just by pulling but a small plastic trim tool in the gap easily releases it, which Pitssy mentioned is good practice anyways and what his tech does with all bumpers.
In summary:
The updated support block worked extremely well and now we just need to wait and see if it holds up.
The support block I made has clearance for the TSB JB weld, but may interfere depending on how much JB weld your dealership decides to put on. The same support block will work with non TSB cars so only one version needed. If you had the TSB done you'd need to replace the bumper bracket.
The support block is extremely easy to install (if you haven't had the TSB done). Requires removing four pop clips, one 10mm screw and releasing the 2 bumper/fender clips. I've documented all the steps with pictures and video for future reference.
Based on what I saw I don't recommend getting the TSB done. If anything do the turnbuckle mod or wait to see if this support block works.
There is possible an issue with the shape of the bumper cover itself causing too much tension on the front drivers side clip.
If the passenger side isn't popping out just leave it alone. This might affect just the drivers side for some reason.
Also want to add here, you can actually reuse the bumper brackets if the TSB has been done, the small “shim” (read: ziptie) that’s super glued on top of it just needs to be removed. Saves ya about $150 if you buy new brackets. In fact, when we first tested the blocks at our dealer, the zip tie actually fell off, and we had to reglue it. lol.
Or, buy new brackets like I did so you don’t run into issues.
Seriously, ever give mad props to this guy. He’s seriously dedicated to making this work, and put a lot of work in this weekend getting my car dialed in. Couldn’t be happier with it, and I’m super glad he’s got not only a solution, but a super easy, non invasive solution to fix this.
Don't know how to thank @Pittsy and @cyfi66 enough, hats off to these gentlemen, they should be awarded big. I have been busy lately and couldn't drop a message here but I was following all posts.. really fantastic work.
Lexus / Toyota Motor Corp should be ashamed and quit making cars for their pathetic, unprofessional and non working TSB for their last swan song of Lexus/Toyota Engineering, 2UR-GSE equipped car. In the other news they are killing 4Runner for 2025.
I really hope this works. 2025 may be the last MY for this and they may not care at all to fix it during its production, but this work of dedication and good will by the folks here complements the beating heart of this car and the last true Lexus engine worth owning, for all the folks who want to own this vehicle.
Godspeed, lets hope this will lead us to the finish line.
Don't know how to thank @Pittsy and @cyfi66 enough, hats off to these gentlemen, they should be awarded big. I have been busy lately and couldn't drop a message here but I was following all posts.. really fantastic work.
Lexus / Toyota Motor Corp should be ashamed and quit making cars for their pathetic, unprofessional and non working TSB for their last swan song of Lexus/Toyota Engineering, 2UR-GSE equipped car. In the other news they are killing 4Runner for 2025.
I really hope this works. 2025 may be the last MY for this and they may not care at all to fix it during its production, but this work of dedication and good will by the folks here complements the beating heart of this car and the last true Lexus engine worth owning, for all the folks who want to own this vehicle.
Godspeed, lets hope this will lead us to the finish line.
Agreed! One point though, Toyota is not killing the 4Runner, in fact a redesign is coming out for 2025. They're already putting out teaser shots of it and the full reveal is coming up soon. I hope their front bumpers don't separate or fall off .
cyfi66 - Thanks again for your extreme dedication to all of us here worried about the front appron separation! I am very confident that your masterpiece will succeed and you will be recognized by all of here as the guy who made a huge difference.
I know you want to wait a bit of time to ensure this works on Pittsy's vehicle BUT PLEASE, let us know when we can proceed with purchasing these from you! I have my money ready to go and can't begin to tell you how happy and appreciative that you went out of your way to find a solution to this problem.
cyfi66 - Thanks again for your extreme dedication to all of us here worried about the front appron separation! I am very confident that your masterpiece will succeed and you will be recognized by all of here as the guy who made a huge difference.
I know you want to wait a bit of time to ensure this works on Pittsy's vehicle BUT PLEASE, let us know when we can proceed with purchasing these from you! I have my money ready to go and can't begin to tell you how happy and appreciative that you went out of your way to find a solution to this problem.
Thanks wthrman2! Trust that I'm doing the background work to make that happen. Plus I only want people spending their money on something that's tested and proven. I want to make sure Pittsy has a chance to drive the car in various conditions so we don't end up with another TSB style disappointment. But rest assured that once its proven out it will be made available to anyone that wants it and will have everything you'd expect from a proper packaging to clear/concise instructions so we can lay this to rest. That's the goal.
04-03-24, 03:28 PM
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