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And a side note, the bumper isn't being directly glued to the retainer or the car. The glue on the underside of the bumper tab is being allowed to dry, creating a lip of plastic material. The piece of plastic ziptie is being glued to the retainer clip, which is replaceable. These two will function like an additional bumper tab.
And the 15mm Ziptie will have two drops of plastic/composite bond between it and the bumper, which is basically what OEMs use to glue some panels on cars. Those added drops I'm assuming are just for insurance that the assembly doesn't wiggle itself apart and shouldn't really affect removal of the bumper.
If you think this fix is that bad, you should see how companies fix helicopters 😅. I know from first hand experience. I've seen 25 million dollar helicopters fixed with epoxy and zipties. If it works, it works.
I'm curious how new cars coming off the assembly line are being addressed. Will they perform this fix before installing the new bumpers? Will they install modified bumpers and modified retainers with the fix already incorporated? Or will everything be business as usual and only address the problem when it crops up on new cars?
It'll be interesting to see in a few months if the affected parts have superseded part numbers...............and the TSB "features" will be part of the replacement parts. Or if Lexus just says takes a position that most owners won't notice or experience the gap so they'll just TSB them if they do.
All you'd really need to make this a permanent fix would be a new revision retainer bracket and a thin line of epoxy under the bumper tab, or a piece of thin plastic you can glue under the bumper tab.
The hard truth is that plastic fenders come apart. Take a look at cars in the parking lot next time and you'll see it everywhere. It just usually doesn't happen usually at 500 miles on a new Lexus. But the sooner you get used to living with it, the sooner you will have peace.
::chuckling:: This is a classic case of sausage making revulsion. I read super glue and my immediate reaction was ‘Ew…thank God I don’t have this issue.’ My second, ‘there’s probably more super gluing and duct taping going on than a little bit’, but this time we’ve seen the guts and spices pooped into its casing.
I know on paper using a piece of plastic Ziptie and some epoxy sounds like a janky fix, but functionally speaking there's no reason it shouldn't work fine.
Our bumper is made up of plastic, so is the retainer. Without a complete redesign of the retainer and bumper, this is a functional fix to add more surface area to hold up the bumper tabs.
Is it ideal? No.
Is it pretty? No.
Will it hold? Most likely so.
Will take now take responsibility for it? Absolutely.
We have a super low volume car, probably less than 6,000 units sold over 3 model years. The higher ups at Lexus genuinely have better things to do and other cars that make them more profit. The fact that they even answered the phone for us, let alone take the time to complete a real repair and own up to the mistake, is honestly way more than anyone could've bargained for.
Most manufacturers in this situation would've told us to kick rocks because this isn't a safety concern. They did something, it's functional, and I'm sure it'll suffice for 95% of owners with zero issues.
The other 5% can install turnbuckles I'm sure.
I get it and if it was Ford or Chevy, sure,,, but for a luxury car manufacturer (I don't care what car it is) it's just not acceptable. As someone mentioned, they decided to go the cheapest route possible to save as much money as possible.
My biggest issue is epoxy and especially super glue. Those do not last forever and will break down and if you live in an extreme environment with shifting and flexing parts, that glue is going to be useless quick and you'll have to keep redoing it.
Why not make new side bumper retainer with a thicker bracket and swap those out instead of having to super glue cut up zip ties? I'm not a luxury car engineer pursuing perfection so maybe my idea is just asinine.
I get it and if it was Ford or Chevy, sure,,, but for a luxury car manufacturer (I don't care what car it is) it's just not acceptable. As someone mentioned, they decided to go the cheapest route possible to save as much money as possible.
My biggest issue is epoxy and especially super glue. Those do not last forever and will break down and if you live in an extreme environment with shifting and flexing parts, that glue is going to be useless quick and you'll have to keep redoing it.
Why not make new side bumper retainer with a thicker bracket and swap those out instead of having to super glue cut up zip ties? I'm not a luxury car engineer pursuing perfection so maybe my idea is just asinine.
Oh, I know a new revised part would be better overall, but the process of:
R&D/Modeling
Engineering
Getting approval
Sending to the vendor
Getting it made
Validation
Quality checks
Getting it stockedbon shelves
Executing the fix
From timeline perspective on such a minor part, you'd be talking a year +, if wouldn't even blimp the radar of priority. From a business perspective, they'd have zero motivation in doing that to a car that's probably going away next year.
it's unfortunate, but it's the world we currently live in.
it's unfortunate, but it's the world we currently live in.
Agreed 100%.
There’s a owner in our car club who has gotten into the habit of bumping his hip on the panels to pop them back in. Before pics are taken, he bumps the panels. When the car is parked, he bumps the panels.
It’s absolute madness and if this helps him, I’m all for it. Maybe, eventually, the bumping will be a distant memory and he’s back into the 500 Fantasy. 💪🏽😎
IDK, I am an engineer and I just can't get behind the justification on this. I don't have an IS500 but I'd be happy to support a fix for this from an aftermarket perspective if I get the chance (don't have access to a car with this issue).
Toyota pioneered Kaizen and part of that is poka-yoke which is the idea of making an assembly process mistake proof. There is nothing poka-yoked about this fix and leaves a lot of room for human error, using the wrong type of glue, forgetting the primer etc. Even if the fix was 100% functionally acceptable which I don't think it is the likelihood of a tech doing it wrong is very high. It's really sad that whatever processes they have in place for TSB's has allowed this to make it all the way through.
IDK, I am an engineer and I just can't get behind the justification on this. I don't have an IS500 but I'd be happy to support a fix for this from an aftermarket perspective if I get the chance (don't have access to a car with this issue).
Toyota pioneered Kaizen and part of that is poka-yoke which is the idea of making an assembly process mistake proof. There is nothing poka-yoked about this fix and leaves a lot of room for human error, using the wrong type of glue, forgetting the primer etc. Even if the fix was 100% functionally acceptable which I don't think it is the likelihood of a tech doing it wrong is very high. It's really sad that whatever processes they have in place for TSB's has allowed this to make it all the way through.
I couldn't agree more. That's why I'm still struggling to believe this is even real. It is more like something drawn up by a shade-tree mechanic looking to up his game from duct tape to superglue and epoxy. Using cut up wire ties? Really? Not even a specifically spec'd shim supplied for the "repair", etc? So much room for tech error - and not just the materials, but the placement of the products, etc. And as mentioned earlier, what about subsequent collision repair, etc. I could not do this repair and feel good about it. I've done TSB repairs where the manufacturer even supplies special purpose drill bits to ensure things are not left to a mechanic to choose the proper drill size or depth, etc. There has to be a better way to fix this situation - mechanically fastening retaining lips, etc to the existing components...........something better than this...........
I couldn't agree more. That's why I'm still struggling to believe this is even real. It is more like something drawn up by a shade-tree mechanic looking to up his game from duct tape to superglue and epoxy. Using cut up wire ties? Really? Not even a specifically spec'd shim supplied for the "repair", etc? So much room for tech error - and not just the materials, but the placement of the products, etc. And as mentioned earlier, what about subsequent collision repair, etc. I could not do this repair and feel good about it. I've done TSB repairs where the manufacturer even supplies special purpose drill bits to ensure things are not left to a mechanic to choose the proper drill size or depth, etc. There has to be a better way to fix this situation - mechanically fastening retaining lips, etc to the existing components...........something better than this...........
Yeah that is definitely possible this is fake. There are a lot of red flags including speccing a "zip tie (1 mm x 4 mm x 15mm)" without any reference to color, brand, material etc. Also using a 3M primer that is meant for increasing bond of foam tapes, not super glue or epoxy. Honestly I do hope it is fake, I will refrain from any further judgement until I can download it directly off a Lexus website.
Is there a Japanese forum equivalent of ClubLexus? I wonder if they even have this problem on their IS500's in Japan. I've never heard a peep from their ownership experience. It's hard to believe it would be a strictly North American issue. If it's happening in Japan too I wonder if it would have been addressed differently.
It would be great if it was fake, unfortunately I dont think it is.
Easy enough for you to check with your Lexus dealer if you think it is. That said it is now pinned to the most used IS500 Facbook group by the guy who worked with them to ge the TSB.
It would be great if it was fake, unfortunately I dont think it is.
Easy enough for you to check with your Lexus dealer if you think it is. That said it is now pinned to the most used IS500 Facbook group by the guy who worked with them to ge the TSB.
Herein lies the problem. Likely an amateur solution because it was advocated by an amateur. No offense to Frank, he did the best he could. But they probably took one look at him and laughed and gave this assignment to a Lexus USA intern.
Herein lies the problem. Likely an amateur solution because it was advocated by an amateur. No offense to Frank, he did the best he could. But they probably took one look at him and laughed and gave this assignment to a Lexus USA intern.
Looking forward to you getting it resolved better with your skills and expertise.
03-07-24, 01:41 PM
