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I think TCCN is, like many of us now, spoiled by how zippy and responsive a lot of modern cars feel - they have "wow-factor", as I like to say.
True for most reviewers, but not TCCN. That man lives and breaths Toyota/Lexus exclusively. He knows they don't make anything with a wow factor so you can't say he's been spoiled.
His harping on the fake sound and how unusual it was to have it.. Yes it has it so turn it off and there is none but he never mentioned you can do that. The RC F has ASC that is active in Sport S+ but no button to turn it On / Off! The GS F had an On / Off ASC button, not a volume control like the IS 500 so it is not unprecedented with the Lexus performance V8 cars to have it.
During 19:54-20:23 in the video he says... "All they did was increase the compression. And then they tweaked a little bit of the tuning to get it that last push to 472hp."
A fair amount of hardware changed. If it was easy IS F guys would have swapped the parts to get the same power.
Like I said before I don't care if the review is all positive and agrees with me 100%, heck it can disagree with me 100% and that is fine. Just get your facts straight and he did not. If you don't like the car or it disappoints you, great, it's not for everyone. If you like it great. We have different reasons for liking it.
Nice find on the article that details what was changed in the newer 2UR-GSE. TLDR is:
"Atkinson Cycle" added for better cruising fuel economy
Redline increased by 500rpm due to new crankshaft pin diameter, counter-weight and big-end bearing size, new connecting rods and main-bearing materials, new piston/piston rings, new intake/exhaust valvetrains
Improved porting and a high-flow/high tumble ratio
Larger throttle body (83mm vs 76mm)
Camshaft profiles with greater valve lift and increased range for VVT-iE system
Increased direct injector pressure (180bar vs 130bar) and improved spray shape
Increased compression ratio and spark plugs
Intake manifold with optimized runner length and diamter
Also, fun little fact: BMW themselves recently said they're going to phase out DCT transmissions and that the future of the automatic transmission is in the classic torque converter style automatic.
So when BMW goes away from DCT all these same parrots will then say how amazing they are again.
Also, fun little fact: BMW themselves recently said they're going to phase out DCT transmissions and that the future of the automatic transmission is in the classic torque converter style automatic.
So when BMW goes away from DCT all these same parrots will then say how amazing they are again.
It's not that automatics aren't good, it's just this particular one isn't. It's not bad, but it's just not good.
Take the ZF8 for example, it's good for a lot of HP/TQ, shifts faster, and can shift non-sequentially.
I personally love the transmission in my IS500, coming from the AA81E in my supercharged 350, the AA80E feels like Porsches's PDK to me.
Funny you mention the ZF8 shifts faster. The ISF AA80E upshifts in approx 1/10th, the ZF8 in 2/10ths of a second....
Upshifting, sure, but downshifting is just as important, which the AA80E sometimes has a stroke trying to accomplish. Not to mention the ZF8 can shift from 8th to 2nd if needed.
I wonder why the shift time for the AA80E in the GSF/RCF/IS500 slowed down to 2/10ths of a second.
It's not that automatics aren't good, it's just this particular one isn't. It's not bad, but it's just not good.
Take the ZF8 for example, it's good for a lot of HP/TQ, shifts faster, and can shift non-sequentially.
I personally love the transmission in my IS500, coming from the AA81E in my supercharged 350, the AA80E feels like Porsches's PDK to me.
I have never driven a car with one and wouldn't base a decision on it. In my opinion it's overhyped.
The GM 8 and 10 speed are good to 1000 hp but nobody talks about those. I think the ZF is just a buzz word for most to repeat and try to sound smart (not a jab at you, just a comment in general and the internet snd journalists).
I have never driven a car with one and wouldn't base a decision on it. In my opinion it's overhyped.
The GM 8 and 10 speed are good to 1000 hp but nobody talks about those. I think the ZF is just a buzz word for most to repeat and try to sound smart (not a jab at you, just a comment in general and the internet snd journalists).
Gotta wonder how much negative press the AA80E gets because journalists jump in a cold IS500 and find it laggy. As we all know it’s a world different once warmed up, but once an initial impression is set it’s hard to overcome.
Also, fun little fact: BMW themselves recently said they're going to phase out DCT transmissions and that the future of the automatic transmission is in the classic torque converter style automatic.
So when BMW goes away from DCT all these same parrots will then say how amazing they are again.
Wait what? There aren’t any current BMWs with the DCT anymore, which was rough and slow at low speeds.
I have never driven a car with one and wouldn't base a decision on it. In my opinion it's overhyped.
The GM 8 and 10 speed are good to 1000 hp but nobody talks about those. I think the ZF is just a buzz word for most to repeat and try to sound smart (not a jab at you, just a comment in general and the internet snd journalists).
The ZF8 and variants of it are used in so many vehicles, you've probably driven one without realizing it. Im not saying its the end all be all solution, but its a really good metric to judge other transmissions on. Its a hydraulic converter, 8 speed, auto trans. The GM 8 speed is based on the ZF8.
Wait what? There aren’t any current BMWs with the DCT anymore, which was rough and slow at low speeds.
You gotta think about what a DCT is doing. Most people don't know how to drive a MT. The majority that do, suck at it. All things considered, a DCT does the job pretty well, as long as you not sitting at super low speeds, ie 1-3mph.
I have never driven a car with one and wouldn't base a decision on it. In my opinion it's overhyped.
The GM 8 and 10 speed are good to 1000 hp but nobody talks about those. I think the ZF is just a buzz word for most to repeat and try to sound smart (not a jab at you, just a comment in general and the internet snd journalists).
I've driven 3 Porsches with PDKs, and I have to say, the hype is justified. Perhaps the only things that those transmissions don't do extremely well is typical dual-clutch things, like creeping around parking lots or in slow-moving traffic. But, even then, they're better than other DCTs I've driven, such as DSGs from VW. The PDK is just good all around and especially good in terms of its reaction times to driver inputs - be them paddle-shift clicks or simply giving it a lot of gas in auto mode. It is my favorite automatic I've ever used, easily. It easily beats out things like the 10-speed in the Camaro and even the ZF 8-speed as tuned by BMW.
I like the amount of personality the AA80E lends to the drive of the IS 500, but I can also acknowledge there are some frustrations with it. All in all, though, I'd rather we had it than the increasingly-ubiquitous ZFs because they do start to feel same-y after a while. This trans, with this specific tuning, is something concocted especially for the IS F and has been refined for the high-performance Lexus cars over time, unlike a ZF 8-speed which is pretty much normal traffic by now. The Lexus feels different. Now, if we could have PDK-like precision along with some personality, that would be amazing. Maybe they'll cook up some new advanced torque-converter auto or even a dual-clutch for that crazy supercar Lexus is making.
I've driven 3 Porsches with PDKs, and I have to say, the hype is justified. Perhaps the only things that those transmissions don't do extremely well is typical dual-clutch things, like creeping around parking lots or in slow-moving traffic. But, even then, they're better than other DCTs I've driven, such as DSGs from VW. The PDK is just good all around and especially good in terms of its reaction times to driver inputs - be them paddle-shift clicks or simply giving it a lot of gas in auto mode. It is my favorite automatic I've ever used, easily. It easily beats out things like the 10-speed in the Camaro and even the ZF 8-speed as tuned by BMW.
I like the amount of personality the AA80E lends to the drive of the IS 500, but I can also acknowledge there are some frustrations with it. All in all, though, I'd rather we had it than the increasingly-ubiquitous ZFs because they do start to feel same-y after a while. This trans, with this specific tuning, is something concocted especially for the IS F and has been refined for the high-performance Lexus cars over time, unlike a ZF 8-speed which is pretty much normal traffic by now. The Lexus feels different. Now, if we could have PDK-like precision along with some personality, that would be amazing. Maybe they'll cook up some new advanced torque-converter auto or even a dual-clutch for that crazy supercar Lexus is making.
I respect that, but for me I still wouldn't base a decision on it. I have been in a few Porsche cars/suvs and never even put thought into the transmission. The Macan I was in rode so rough I couldn't get past that! Maybe it would be different for me when driving and living with it every day. Who knows. I do know that between the Toyota/GM vehicles I have owned the transmission didn't bother me much with any of them other than the low speed clunkiness, which I've gotten used to over time (C7 and IS). I think the only thing that would bother me long-term is a bad trans with serious problems, like stupidly rough shifting or something. Everything I've been in has been a 7-10 on a scale on 10 which is good for me.
The only major consideration I would make in regards to the transmission is automatic or manual. For example, if I ever feel frisky and buy a C6 it will be a manual or nothing 😁 And I probably wouldn't ever buy a manual daily driver because I don't always want to be engaged with the vehicle leaving for work at 6:45 am or coming home tired after a long day.
I'm not saying the ZF or DCT isn't better. I don't have the experience to make that decision. I just don't think they're worth all the hype. I wouldn't think higher of the IS if it had another transmission.
I enjoy the CCN's videos. He was hard on the IS, maybe his expectations were too high. I was the same way back in 2018 with the Kia Stinger GT2, what a let down. Kept it for 2 weeks. If he went into the review like most of us went into our purchase (I hope), he would have approached it differently and correctly. I just bought my 2023 IS500 yesterday. I traded a 2023 Camaro ZL1 w/10 speed for it. I've recently came from BMW and Acura vehicles such as M340i, X3 M40i, and Acura's TLX Type-S SH-AWD.
I loved the Camaro, best car I've had yet for performance, and emotion. Where the car let me down is the brand, it's corporate customer service, and dealership networks is abhorrent, from sales to service. Made me realize performance isn't everything, especially with all the sacrifice made from cheap parts to employees not worth their salt. BMW was the best car I've owned but not my favorite. BMW was built excellent in my opinion and the dealer network and experience was amazing. I am going for the same thing with Lexus, it seems similar.
I bought the IS500 because its a Lexus (the care and experience). And for its V8, it's a work of art and reliable. Fit and finish is as expected, the car is a great Grand Tourer, hopefully no one expects it to be track capable like a ZL1. The engine note is amazing, the car has just enough body roll to be communicative and to help keep bad things like snap oversteer from happening. The Torsen LSD works great, the trans does feel lazy, but only if you're pushing it and asking for it to be something it never said it was. What this car says to me is; Yes, my tech is a little old and outdated, my transmission shift logic isn't as good as performance cars, and all my performance numbers on paper don't look good when you compare me to others in my class. But I wasn't built for that. I was built to show you how well rounded I am. I am stylish, I have excellent build quality, I am extremely reliable, I will age well. While somethings are old, I promise they work and sound better than others like Bose or HK and my infotainment and dash cluster doesn't go blank and reboot every drive like FCA and GM products. I don't suffer from boost leaks or Coolant leaks from supercharger coolant circuits, I am simple and have more back-up safety systems than others, I hold my value, I am safe, I am extremely comfortable and quiet inside my cabin, I can be reserved and relaxed when you want and get you 29 mpg when cruising even though I'm a naturally aspirated V8 with only 8 speeds, I can also provide a smile and reward you if you roll into the throttle, I will not punish you and promise not to be a crowd surfer like others leaving cars and coffee, I promise you wont see my twin at every red light or simply in passing like other brands, you don't have to worry about trading me in before my warranty expires. Lastly, I'll get you some thumbs up and gain you good conversation from other enthusiasts.
I am sure there's alot more, but this is what I went into my purchase knowing/expecting. I hope everyone is as satisfied as I am with their car choice. If it's performance you're after get an Audi RS3 or BMW M2. They're both around $65k brand new. Just know every car has their faults, some it's wieght, some styling/design, some it's materials used, some is reliability, ect.
07-21-23, 10:52 AM
