Kimchiguy

I know this topic has been covered for many of the other F or F-Sport models and the officially stated difference between S and S+ is tighter/sharper/heavier steering and adaptive dampers set firmer. From both the 2014 and 2016 IS350 F-Sport Series 3s that I had, this was the case.

I've only had the IS500 for about a week but I swear that the throttle mapping/shift programming changes from Sport to Sport+
I thought it was my imagination but twice when I switched the **** from S to S+ (maintaining throttle position) it dropped a gear (or overdrive) and the car had better throttle response.
I'll need to try this again but maybe I'm imagining this as I get used to the car.

AmbyBomb

My experience has been similar. Sport S+ is when you want wild and crazy mode.

arentz07

If it is like the IS 350, then the only differences between Sport and Sport+ are the adaptive dampers and steering. I think it could be different in the IS 500 in other ways, but will need some confirmation on that.

Kimchiguy

Funny thing is that for me the IS500 S+ still feels a bit tame since I'm coming from a BMW X3M Competition. That sport mode was ballistic.
Tbh the more controlled and linear power delivery is a nice change and way easier to modulate. Not to mention a suspension that is liveable as a daily driver.

arentz07

I think that a lot of that difference is down to the tuning and the fact that the 500 has a naturally-aspirated engine versus the Bimmer's turbo engine. I notice a similar thing in the 330i versus my IS 350. The 330i feels much snappier to engage in Sport mode versus my IS 350. The ZF is great. But from what I remember in driving an RC F, the 8-speed in that car is a little more immediate than what you'd get in an IS 350. BMW has really gone towards making their drivetrains ultra-responsive and immediate. Even in Comfort, the 3er feels pretty eager to get up and go. The IS is more normal-car in terms of the throttle mapping - something I have seen in reviews of the IS 500 as well. I think Lexus prioritized smoothness and predictability over the sense of "sport" in normal driving. The only car I've owned that I felt really blended those two aspects perfectly was my GTI. The DCT always felt eager and responsive, but it could be driven rather smoothly with no effort. It never felt over-eager in any drive mode, nor did it feel lifeless or dulled.

As for Sport S+, I checked the owner's manual for 2022. The manual states that the steering, engine, transmission, and damping will be altered to better suit "sporty" driving. Having said that, it also mentions Sport S mode having an effect on the transmission and engine. So, I think what this means is that the suspension and steering are additionally modified along with the modifications to engine and transmission from Sport S mode. That's just how it reads for me.

From page 228:

From 229:

You can go here to download it: https://drivers.lexus.com/lexusdrive...anuals?type=om

As for what that means in the real world, I think an owner will need to say.

Kimchiguy

Fantastic insights and definitely summarizes a lot of the differences between BMW and Lexus throttle delivery. Forced induction plays a huge part on how responsive the throttle will be when pushed. But I wonder what the IS500 would feel like with the ZF.
Another observation I noticed that even in Sport/Sport+ mode with moderate to high throttle inputs on the Lexus it shifted gears at just under 5K rpm in auto mode where BMW would bring it close to redline.

I agree with your assessment of the GTI drivetrain! It struck a perfect balance of responsiveness and sportiness while never being harsh. That said, I don't mind a little shift shock to bang home the message that the car is being driven enthusiastically. Germans have a way with exhaust tuning that Japanese often overlook.

As for the manual, it says the same thing for me so I guess I'll just have to keep trying out the different modes to detect differences not documented

arentz07

Yeah, same on the 350. It will not hold revs past about 5700 or so unless I have the pedal fully on the floor, in which case it still won't go all the way to redline. Manual mode is the best way if you want the most control.

AJinDFW

I've noticed the same thing. I really notice a difference if I drive around in Eco mode for awhile and then switch to Normal or Custom. I have Custom set to performance for engine and chassis,and normal for climate. I notice that switching out of Eco, the car gets louder. I had cruise set and repeatedly pushed the **** back and forth between Eco, Normal and Custom and the car got louder. Throttle response improved a bit on Normal, and on Custom, throttle response improved more, higher rpms in gears were held longer and steering felt heavier.

Going from Custom to Sport, I don't notice anything, but on Sport+, it seems steering gets heavier still, and the throttle response is sharper and gears held even longer than on custom. As I acclimate to the car, I can feel a difference between drive modes. What's cool is that, between Eco, Custom and Sport+, it feels like 3 slightly different cars.

Kimchiguy

Thanks for your insights - I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who feels a slight difference with Sport+ mode!
More research to conduct I guess!

arentz07

Based on what the manual states, this seems as expected.

I guess you have the ASC turned on?

AJinDFW

Correct. ASC is on.

On another note, a quick inspection seems to confirm that the transmission cooler on test cars didn’t make it to production models.

Kimchiguy

Okay I drove on the highway tonight to conduct more research. Sport mode, car was cruising in 7th gear auto mode and switching to Normal the car shifted up to 8th. Turned it over to Sport again and no gear change. As soon as I flicked it to Sport+ it dropped back down to 7th.
So I'm pretty sure Lexus has programmed Sport and Sport+ differently for the IS500.
Manual gear changes are also a bit deliberate in Sport+

SSackey

How are the gear changes at hard throttle in Normal? Smooth slush-box (in a good way) or still the more deliberate changes?

macmaster

I'm not really noticing any deliberate changes in shifting Normal or Sport or Sport+ on hard throttle. It's only manual downshifts that are extremely jerky, especially going from 3 to 2 and 2 to 1. I almost have to brace my core to be ready for it, lol, as well as make sure there's no one directly in front of me as I feel the car lurches forward on aggressive downshifts.

arentz07

Seems to be standard behavior on all 3IS models... The only time I've noticed my 350 doing a proper rev-matched downshift is when I really pushed the car hard into a turn - like, near-maximum braking force. I don't drive like that even when I am spiritedly driving.