Front Apron Separation?
#241
Separation keeps getting worse
Took my car in today for its 5k mile oil change and multi point inspection and informed the dealer of the bumper separation. Here are the pictures from when I first got the car to now where the separation is definitely more noticeable. I will await to see if Lexus can come up with a permanent fix before the dealer does any work on this.
#242
Intermediate
Took my car in today for its 5k mile oil change and multi point inspection and informed the dealer of the bumper separation. Here are the pictures from when I first got the car to now where the separation is definitely more noticeable. I will await to see if Lexus can come up with a permanent fix before the dealer does any work on this.
#243
Intermediate
I also took mine in to the dealership so they can document the issue. They checked under the bumper to see if it was caused by hitting anything... it was pristine, of course. Signed a form so both parties are aware this has been documented.
The more we can get documented by the dealers to send up the chain, the better our odds for a fix.
The more we can get documented by the dealers to send up the chain, the better our odds for a fix.
#244
Pole Position
I also took mine in to the dealership so they can document the issue. They checked under the bumper to see if it was caused by hitting anything... it was pristine, of course. Signed a form so both parties are aware this has been documented.
The more we can get documented by the dealers to send up the chain, the better our odds for a fix.
The more we can get documented by the dealers to send up the chain, the better our odds for a fix.
#245
Intermediate
Wait, what? Letting the dealership know that people are having this issue will reduce our chances of getting a permanent fix...? Explain to me what the logic is. We clearly know this is not caused by scraping- I have no scrapes (as mentioned in my post).
They had to check under the bumper to ensure Lexus does not come back and say it is a collision based issue. Covering bother parties.
They had to check under the bumper to ensure Lexus does not come back and say it is a collision based issue. Covering bother parties.
The following 2 users liked this post by IssaV8:
Carolina50 (09-02-22),
wthrman2 (09-03-22)
#246
Pole Position
Wait, what? Letting the dealership know that people are having this issue will reduce our chances of getting a permanent fix...? Explain to me what the logic is. We clearly know this is not caused by scraping- I have no scrapes (as mentioned in my post).
They had to check under the bumper to ensure Lexus does not come back and say it is a collision based issue. Covering bother parties.
They had to check under the bumper to ensure Lexus does not come back and say it is a collision based issue. Covering bother parties.
Now...if it doesn't say anything about the current condition of your bumper vis-a-vis scraping then this is all moot and we are all covered .
#247
Intermediate
My logic is if the form you signed says anywhere that your car is not scraped, then that is bad, because in caveman terms it sets the precedent: no scrape = no separation, and logically implies, scrape = separation. Then in months or years in the future when people come in inevitably with minor scrapes under their bumper the dealer may point to forms like this signed by early owners, and deny coverage.
Now...if it doesn't say anything about the current condition of your bumper vis-a-vis scraping then this is all moot and we are all covered .
Now...if it doesn't say anything about the current condition of your bumper vis-a-vis scraping then this is all moot and we are all covered .
Thanks for the caveman terms; you’re so helpful. 🙄
#248
Pole Position
If anyone should do this, it should be me, since I have a minor scrape and a perfect bumper.
#249
Intermediate
So if the separation happens to you and you happen to a little scrape, what do you think they'll tell you? I just don't understand what the purpose of "documenting this issue" is when your car is perfectly fine.
If anyone should do this, it should be me, since I have a minor scrape and a perfect bumper.
If anyone should do this, it should be me, since I have a minor scrape and a perfect bumper.
Do it. Go document that you have “a perfect bumper” and scraped your stuff. To show both sides of the coin.
#250
Pole Position
#251
I have this issue as well, it's fairly noticable. I'm thinking of using VHB tape to fix it. My only concern is if the VHB tape might be too noticable or if I have to take the bumper off I might damage it.
#253
This is my analysis:
If Lexus planned to put a V8 engine into a model, it would have taken this into consideration at the very beginning of the design, to make sure it does not need to lengthen/change the front so prominently to make room for the V8. For example the GS, RC and LC - their engine bay packaging can naturally fit a V8 without modification. A heavier engine put in a car which you do not plan to during the initial design, will lead to significant different stress dynamics and distribution. Without extensive car body structure overhaul, unexpected problems will happen.
The root cause of the separation is: the IS front subframe/structure is not strong enough to bear the extra weight of the V8 engine, which means when driving on uneven road surfaces, the larger torsional stress (because of the heavier engine) generated between the front wheels will cause excessive "micro twists" effect to the front end, this high frequency small deformation will constantly wiggle the front bumper cover attached to it. Finally the clips that hold the cover to the front fender will give up and fail, and leads to the separation. Because the twist is originated from the bottom of the front end (the engine mount on front subframe), the small deformation of the fender's shape is more prominent on upper side of the vehicle, this is the reason why the separation always starts from the top of the bumper cover.
The reason why some owner see this issue but some do not, is mainly due to the local road condition of where the owner lives and drives the vehicle. If he/she lives in an area with very good road condition, most roads are flat without potholes, uneven expansion joints etc., then the front bumper cover clips can hold up longer; or vice versa, they will fail sooner.
There are 2 options to address this issue:
(1). Beef up the IS500's front structure (highly unlikely due to high cost);
(2). Use stronger bumper clips that will not fail so easily.
If Lexus did not redesign the parts in question from the fundamental level, every fix attempt will be temporary, and the issue will come back again.
If Lexus planned to put a V8 engine into a model, it would have taken this into consideration at the very beginning of the design, to make sure it does not need to lengthen/change the front so prominently to make room for the V8. For example the GS, RC and LC - their engine bay packaging can naturally fit a V8 without modification. A heavier engine put in a car which you do not plan to during the initial design, will lead to significant different stress dynamics and distribution. Without extensive car body structure overhaul, unexpected problems will happen.
The root cause of the separation is: the IS front subframe/structure is not strong enough to bear the extra weight of the V8 engine, which means when driving on uneven road surfaces, the larger torsional stress (because of the heavier engine) generated between the front wheels will cause excessive "micro twists" effect to the front end, this high frequency small deformation will constantly wiggle the front bumper cover attached to it. Finally the clips that hold the cover to the front fender will give up and fail, and leads to the separation. Because the twist is originated from the bottom of the front end (the engine mount on front subframe), the small deformation of the fender's shape is more prominent on upper side of the vehicle, this is the reason why the separation always starts from the top of the bumper cover.
The reason why some owner see this issue but some do not, is mainly due to the local road condition of where the owner lives and drives the vehicle. If he/she lives in an area with very good road condition, most roads are flat without potholes, uneven expansion joints etc., then the front bumper cover clips can hold up longer; or vice versa, they will fail sooner.
There are 2 options to address this issue:
(1). Beef up the IS500's front structure (highly unlikely due to high cost);
(2). Use stronger bumper clips that will not fail so easily.
If Lexus did not redesign the parts in question from the fundamental level, every fix attempt will be temporary, and the issue will come back again.
Last edited by felixcat; 09-18-22 at 10:26 PM.
#254
Pole Position
Thread Starter
The reason why some owner see this issue but some do not, is mainly due to the local road condition of where the owner lives and drives the vehicle. If he/she lives in an area with very good road condition, most roads are flat without potholes, uneven expansion joints etc., then the front bumper cover clips can hold up longer; or vice versa, they will fail sooner..
RIGHT?!?! 😜
The following users liked this post:
arentz07 (09-17-22)
#255
drives cars
This is my analysis:
If Lexus planned to put a V8 engine into a model, it would have taken this into consideration at the very beginning of the design, to make sure it does not need to lengthen/change the front so prominently to make room for the V8. For example the GS, RC and LC - their engine bay packaging can naturally fit a V8 without modification. A heavier engine put in a car which you do not plan to during the initial design, will lead to significant different stress dynamics and distribution. Without extensive car body structure overhaul, unexpected problems will happen.
The root cause of the separation is: the IS front subframe/structure is not strong enough to bear the extra weight of the V8 engine, which means when driving on uneven road surfaces, the larger torsional stress (because of the heavier engine) generated between the front wheels will cause excessive "micro twists" effect to the front end, this high frequency small deformation will constantly wiggle the front bumper cover attached to it. Finally the clips that hold the cover to the front fender will give up and fail, and leads to the separation. Because the twist is originated from the bottom of the front end (the engine mount on front subframe), the small deformation of the fender's shape is more prominent on upper side of the vehicle, this is the reason why the separation always starts from the top of the bumper cover.
The reason why some owner see this issue but some do not, is mainly due to the local road condition of where the owner lives and drives the vehicle. If he/she lives in an area with very good road condition, most roads are flat without potholes, uneven expansion joints etc., then the front bumper cover clips can hold up longer; or vice versa, they will fail sooner.
There are 2 options to address this issue:
(1). Beef up the IS500's front structure (highly unlikely due to high cost);
(2). Use stronger bumper clips that will not fail so easily.
If Lexus planned to put a V8 engine into a model, it would have taken this into consideration at the very beginning of the design, to make sure it does not need to lengthen/change the front so prominently to make room for the V8. For example the GS, RC and LC - their engine bay packaging can naturally fit a V8 without modification. A heavier engine put in a car which you do not plan to during the initial design, will lead to significant different stress dynamics and distribution. Without extensive car body structure overhaul, unexpected problems will happen.
The root cause of the separation is: the IS front subframe/structure is not strong enough to bear the extra weight of the V8 engine, which means when driving on uneven road surfaces, the larger torsional stress (because of the heavier engine) generated between the front wheels will cause excessive "micro twists" effect to the front end, this high frequency small deformation will constantly wiggle the front bumper cover attached to it. Finally the clips that hold the cover to the front fender will give up and fail, and leads to the separation. Because the twist is originated from the bottom of the front end (the engine mount on front subframe), the small deformation of the fender's shape is more prominent on upper side of the vehicle, this is the reason why the separation always starts from the top of the bumper cover.
The reason why some owner see this issue but some do not, is mainly due to the local road condition of where the owner lives and drives the vehicle. If he/she lives in an area with very good road condition, most roads are flat without potholes, uneven expansion joints etc., then the front bumper cover clips can hold up longer; or vice versa, they will fail sooner.
There are 2 options to address this issue:
(1). Beef up the IS500's front structure (highly unlikely due to high cost);
(2). Use stronger bumper clips that will not fail so easily.
I think the simplest answer here is probably the right one. The clip used on the driver's side right now is not strong enough for its application.
The following 2 users liked this post by arentz07:
Carolina50 (09-17-22),
DLPTony (09-17-22)