macmaster

Nice! Hope you guys are on the waiting list already.

CryoPerv

So, I will share some 'real world' experiences in the hopes of giving the OP some information.
I recently came back from a business trip where I happened to have a 300S as a rental (I know not a C, but its supposedly the sportier version of this vehicle, but near enough I think for your purposes, yes it had the 5.7L Hemi).

Experience in my IS 500:
I am nearing 14,000 miles after nearly 7 months of ownership. I have NOT have any of the CEL issues (Exhaust gasket) or front apron separation. I am not certain the percentage of cars affected by this, but it stands to reason the low production run of this car makes it feel more prevalent than it truly is; I'd be surprised of more than 50 vehicles in total experienced these issues.
I drive the car everyday, my daily commute to work totals ~70 miles roundtrip, 80% highway driving. The car feels nimble when you push it, and strikes a nice balance for sportiness and comfort for daily driving. Some of its sportiness is derived from it's size; it is a much smaller car when compared to a 300(S/C) and I will remark on that later. Having maxed out the car (in terms of electronically limited top speed) I have high confidence in this car, at any speed. One point of criticism I have are the stock tires; the Bridgestones do leave something to be desired, however I'm sure with Michelin PS4s, cornering will be that much more fun. Once you get used to the transmission, you can make the car do anything you want (I tend to drive it 'like a manual', such is downshifting well in advance of changing lanes to pass or staying in certain places in the powerband). The back end is very easy to get loose, the headlights are nice, and the noise of the engine is fantastic. It's not a perfect car, but is one of the best sports sedans available.


Experience in the 300s:
Over the course of around 8 days, I had a 2022 300s that I put approximately 530 miles on. Inclusive of the driving conditions were some spirited mountain driving as well as general highway/city driving (Denver area/Mt. Evans/Lookout Point). It is important to point out that these cars are in different classes, with the IS500 being more of a compact luxury sport sedan, and the 300 being full-sized luxury car; and frankly for their respective purposes each car does its job well, it is really up to the driver to decide which features matter more to them. If there is one category where the 300 wins hands down, it is interior space. The front seats are large, and heated (but not ventilated like the IS500), and the rear seats have enough space for adults. It has all the bells and whistles tech wise (carplay, adaptive cruise control, steering assist etc.) however I found the actual bells and whistles highly annoying (this car dings and beeps at you for EVERY FREAKIN THING; you opened a door, you closed a door, you are walking away, you are reversing, etc, etc, etc) I found this extremely annoying, and the IS500's beeps are much more subdued (admittedly the messages when you have TC off in the 500 are persistent but at least its silent lol). This also leads me to the infotainment. Compared to even the IS500's somewhat dated infotainment system, the Chrysler uConnect system is literal garbage. the best example is in the IS500, when you connect your iphone, carplay automatically starts, and away you go..no fuss. in the Chrysler, you have to 'enable' carplay first and go through drawn out process before its usable (basically a solid 10 minutes extra spent on the rental parking lot before setting off to get this done and other niceties). The digital gauge is pretty standard, and not nearly as cool as the one in the IS500. Overall I found the interior cheap and far less refined than the IS500.

Lastly, I have to talk about the difference in driving experiences. The 300 is a large vehicle, and even though the car has a reasonably powerful engine, there is no hiding the extra weight. the suspension is much softer, and the 20(?) inch tires gives it a fairly tall profile. When in the 120+ mph range, it definitely does not hunker down like the IS500; it feels much more floaty which does not lead to high confidence in going faster. The steering of the IS500 is laser sharp in comparison as well. The engine sounds 'ok', but not as pleasing as the IS500...an apt comparison is a howl from a dog versus the roar of a lion. The 300 performs well enough for what it is, but at no point did I feel excited to drive it. When you start the push it, as I was on the winding mountain roads, the foremost thought in my head was "I wish I had my IS500 here".

tldr;
If you like to drive, get the IS500, if you like to be driven, get the 300

I hope you find this helpful, and note this is just my (highly biased) opinion.

felixcat

Some updates. Previously I was concern that the 300C's standard pano sunroof, which may harm the car body's rigidity. So I went to test drive a similarly equipped 300 (V6 version) which also has the pano roof and 20-inch wheel.

It turned out to be no perceivable rigidity reduction (I used to own a standard roof 300 so I know the benchmark). This sounds impossible, so I did some deep dive.

I am able to find the 300's body repair manual and also some other design document. I find the design of this latest LX platform is quite remarkable, even judging from today's standard, and obviously it was ahead of its time 11 years ago:

1. Different than the standard roof version, when equipped with the pano roof, it also adds an extra reinforce brace cradle, made of high strength steel, welded to 300's roof frame rails; At the same time, there is another thick HSS cross bar connecting the two B-pillars. On top of these, all of the roof structure welding points, and also flanges and seams of the reinforce cradle are strengthened and bonded to the roof panel by structural adhesive in addition of spot welding.

2. The roof panel is joint to the car body by laser brazing (stronger than spot weld). This is a very advanced technology in the beginning of 2010s (the current Lexus IS also has it). Some automakers were unable to figure it out until recently, for example Acura did not have this tech until the 2021 TLX.

Therefore, the reinforced cradle together with the roof panel, forms a rigid load bearing torque box, this explains even with a big hole cut out for the pano glass, the 300 can still maintain (or not lose too much) its original rigidity.

I also discover some notable design difference between the 300 and IS, for example:

- one of the marketing highlight of the latest IS generation, is the use of "laser screw" and structural adhesive. I see the IS does focus on the laser screw part but not so in applying the structural adhesive. In comparison, the 300 uses structural adhesive on top of welding extensively throughout the body-in-white, basically speaking it uses structural adhesive in almost every joint between two load bearing components.

- the 300 tends to use more ultra-high strength steel and high strength steel in key structural areas than the IS: for example the transverse ribs in the front floor section, and also the whole rear floor and rear bulkhead. My theory is since IS has shorter wheelbase and is lighter, it already achieves sufficient rigidity without using higher strength steel and also adhesives.

Generally speaking, in terms of body structure, due to the size and also stress it needs to handle, from my point of view the LX platform is more robust than the IS. However, the IS has absolute advantages in build quality and electronic features. For example the parking brake on the LX platform is still pure mechanical with a physical pedal so there is no way it can implement the auto hold feature. Also the infotainment system on the 300 (UConnect 4) is one generation outdated.

So still a tough decision to make, at this moment I will proceed in both routes and see which one is available first.

DLPTony

Very nice and concise. 👍🏽

eyeamkeek

the dude did the equivalent of compare a SRT model to the IS350.

I have an allocation for the 300 and hunting down an IS500. Game time decision.

DLPTony

No…I think he was spot on. The 300, including the old SRT variant, never had the same performance chops as the other models. Sure the Charger is a big family cruiser, but it isn’t boaty & floaty like the 300.

If you’re not interested in performance, then get the 300. The build quality will not be there, but it is comfortable as hell, roomy, and quick.

If performance is part of the equation…. 😳

Everyone in my immediate family are dyed in the wool MOPAR true believers. One SRT Challenger, Two Charger Hellcats, a SRT RAM Viper truck (manual), a TRX, a Durango Hellcat, and a Partridge in a Pear Tree. Between them and their equally as passionate friends, there’s no respect for the 300 as a performance member.

So the question, in my opinion, was the right one. Do you want to drive or be driven? Sporty-wise, I beat the living snot out of a 300C not too long ago.

felixcat

Lexus displayed the IS500 in the recent OC auto show. After carefully check it out in person, I would like to take back my previous comment about the material and also the build quality.

For the material - more specifically speaking places where I am able to reach, touch and feel, it really does not qualify as "luxury" any more from today's standard. This is partially due to many new models across the auto industry have used better materials nowadays. Frankly speaking for the interior materials, the IS500 is not so different than a Camry with leather seats at this moment (and the seat material used by the IS500 is even not true leather). There are many other cars from different brands on display at the scene so it is easy to compare. I truly feel many of them have made a big step forward in terms of "upscale feel" - if not letting me know the brand name, I may even say they are luxury cars.

And for the build quality, I do not find anything special when compare it to other brands' latest models. There are some nice treatment and better standards on higher models like the LS or LC, but not anymore for the IS. As I have pointed out in the bumper separation thread (my detail analysis is here), the hood is not even align with the fender.

Not saying IS500 is a bad car, in fact I consider it to be reasonably priced. A V8 sedan with loaded features is only asking for $58k, nothing to complain.My point is, if I bought it the only reason is the V8 engine, not the chassis, transmission, materials and build quality.

macmaster

I agree that the IS feels less premium than an LS or LC, and that economy car manufacturers are stepping up their game on interior quality but I’ll offer some counterpoints to consider:

BMW is routinely accused of recycling interior design and materials all throughout their lineup which also cheapens it in its own way.
Ferrari is known for terrible quality interiors that fall apart after years.
Isolation and sound deadening, which you can’t see or feel, is still better among luxury cars including Lexus IS. Did you slam the doors and feel the difference at the auto show?
Suspension is better in Lexus IS compared to something like Camry which will also enhance the interior when driving.

You have to consider the car as a whole, such as the design and ride quality. Just because Hyundai and Kia are putting a 30” screen in their dashboard, using soft touch plastic, and vegan leather doesnt mean it’s close to premium.

Kanpai

Bro just buy the 300. You want to be validated for the choice, so I'll do it for you. More IS500 for me

TipsyTonio

I won't take the aggressive stance of some of the forum's members, but I will say this. That Infrared w/ White IS500 has seen more buttcheeks than the toilet at a gas station. They've moved it all over the country to a bunch of different car shows and it sure has not been cared for how a personal car would be cared for. I myself sat in this car when it was "fresh" in October of 2021 and it was already showing wear. While this doesn't affect your argument of materials, I do think that to make your claim of fit and finish you should definitely check one out at a dealer when they start arriving.

arentz07

Any time I see someone compare a Camry to an IS, I see this as a red flag. I've driven multiple examples of 2018-2020 Camry as rental cars, and driving that car is nothing like driving my IS. The touch points and overall fit and finish of the Camry's interior are nice, but the seats, door panels, and many other areas look very cheap compared to what's in the IS. For a couple examples, the IS's entire dashboard is soft-touch and features real, not imitation, stitching. Also the leather used on the steering wheel is softer in the IS, and while Nuluxe is not leather, it feels every bit as comfy as leather, and has elicited more than one "I like these seats!" from passengers in my ISes. That's just my experience. You can disagree, but I think you would be in the minority.

The newer Camry is also a huge upgrade from before. I owned a 2015 Camry and a 2010 Camry, and the current one blows those out of the water. It rides a lot better, but even before you get to that, the interior looks and feels more stylish and modern. I don't think I'd actually own one because I find the seats to be less comfortable than I would like, especially the too-short seat bottom cushion, along with the somewhat lackadaisical transmission that always seems to gear hunt. But, other than those two nit-picks, I really, really like the Camry.

I also think you have to remember, every car is still "a car" at the end of the end of the day. Outside of high-end luxury cars, there are going to be obvious cost-cutting measures in cars, especially if they're not from the past 5 or so years. I don't care what BMW I get in, they always have a nice first impression, but it doesn't take long to find some cheap plastic somewhere inside. And I think it's relevant to mention BMW here, as you could argue they directly compete against Lexus - not to mention the 3-series itself, which I own. In some ways, the interior of that 3er is nicer-looking and more modern than the Lexus, but boy howdy... it does not feel as solid in motion. The chassis? Sure. But the interior has a lot of random rattles that come and go, and the seats, armrests, and general plastics in the interior are not as soft or nice-feeling as in the Lexus.

Domokun500

I have been driving SRTs since their inception, and recently a hellcat challenger. Good solid platform borrowed from the Germans, but the overall luxury\quality was always missing for me. I am not saying it will break down on the road, because actually that platform is very reliable. It was the little things that you had to live with, and dodge refused to fix. Examples include coolant sludge, whining gears and differentials, noisy lifters. These make a $70k car feel like a hoopty very quickly. Also, the car feels and handles larger than it actually is. Some may choose the dodge because they need a big kid hauler, great choice for them. Others, not so much. Good luck with your search.

felixcat

My point is, the competition within the auto industry became way more fierce than 7-8 years ago, and from many aspects the boundary between luxury and non-luxury models were less clear and even heavily overlapped nowadays. This is not only for entry-level models like the IS but also applies to other brands such as the C class, 3 series, A4 etc. For example many "main-stream normal" cars' cabin now is equal or even better than those entry-luxury models mentioned here. For example the Sonata and CX60:


Hyundai Sonata

Mazda CX60

The only major difference between the two groups is the FWD and RWD platform, but the "traditional luxury camp" even lost ground in the prevailing EV era since most EVs can easily use RWD or AWD platform. In some cases due to white-hot competition, some auto makers even intentionally let non-luxury models be more mechanically/structurally superior than its entry level luxury models. For example in 2017 when Toyota started to sell the latest gen of Camry using the TNGA platform, they made its car body's torsional rigidity to be more than 30,000 nm/deg, which exceeds the IS by a large margin.

With that being said, the IS500 has its unique selling point and is reasonably priced based on its relative quality and capability in the market. On paper the IS500 is better than the previous IS-F, but there is a reason why Lexus only price it from $58k, not the IS-F's $64k starting price (this is for the 2014 money, taking inflation into consideration it is equivalent to ~$81k now). If Lexus set the MSRP to be $80k for the IS500, I think lots of people will lost interest even they can afford it.

macmaster

^Again, "luxury" is more than just interior space and FWD vs AWD/RWD. Luxury also traditionally meant power. Most econo cars still use smaller displacement engines like a 2L 4 cylinder. IL6 and V8 engines are still expensive to design and build, and continue to command a premium.

You're right that the EV market is already leveling the playing field. For a while I expect that all EVs are going to look the same, feel the same, and drive the same. Luxury manufacturers will need to find a way to elevate themselves above the rest and earn their prestige all over again.

DLPTony

…and this is why I do not discuss quality with the family. They want the validation so badly, but I can’t give it to them. Push one button and the whole assembly moves… A few years in and I hear creaks and rattles throughout the cabin. It’s just not the same. 🤷🏽‍♂️

Lexus interiors will be dinged as ‘dated’, but no one…especially someone who has actually owned one…has uttered the word ‘cheap’. Hell…DeMuro damn near hates Lexus and he’s never said it! 😂