AmbyBomb

I have no idea what you're trying to ask. I like the IS500 more than the GSF or RCF for reasons that go beyond the hard to find factor.

felixcat

I would like to raise one concern: I suspect Lexus has detuned the 2UR engine on the IS500 - the peak hp/torque may be rated the same, but actual power output across the rev range may be less than the GS-F, RC-F, or even less than the IS-F which is a 14 years old model. My reasoning is based on C&D's test.

• The 2008 IS-F, with a lower final gear ratio (2.94:1, v.s IS500's 3.13:1), smaller output (56hp and 24 lb-ft torque less), is faster than the IS500 in all aspects of acceleration (0-60, 0-100, 5-60 rolling start, 1/4 miles);
• The IS500 is 169 lbs heavier than the IS-F, but from the GS-F test (GS-F is 159 lbs heavier than the IS500, and with a smaller final gear ratio, less hp and torque than the IS500 as well), it still achieves almost identical acceleration result, so ~169 lbs of weight cannot explain why the less powerful IS-F is faster than the IS500;
• The RC-F, with identical peak hp, torque and final gear ratio as the IS500, but 48 lbs heavier, still outruns the IS500 by a large margin.

Therefore the only explanation is the powertrain on the IS500 is purposefully (and perhaps significantly) detuned.

IS-F test: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...rumented-test/
IS500 test: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/
RC-F test: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/
GS-F test: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...f-test-review/

BitterJoke

To me it wouldn’t make sense for them to de-tune the engine at all aspects except peak HP-TQ. Why waste the time/effort/money to do that? I would assume that the difference would be the “F” cars have a suspension and tires that are setup to put the power to the ground better than the IS500. My IS500 gets terrible traction from a launch. That being said some websites have the is500 having a lower 1/4 mile time then the isf. TBH I would like to see some real world tests. Comparing cars on paper is fun and all, but it doesn’t really mean much.


This has been posted before but here is a Lexus v8 vs Lexus V8

lojackfty

Remember there are no coolers on this car. No trans cooler or oil cooler, that could be a reason why so that it does not easily overheat.

AmbyBomb

Or the results are the product of different testing methods or just variation.

The IS500 is faster than the ISF, RCF and GSF at Lightning Lap.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/

The RCF Track Edition is faster than the IS500, as it should be.

Kanpai

I think this Felix guy just hates this car. Seemingly every post of his is critical of it. Maybe he's just trying to drive down demand for the car so he can buy at a discount.

macmaster

Agreed. He wrote an interesting article trying to explain the bumper separation, but ever since just been annoying. And that's coming from me, Macmaster.

TipsyTonio

I'm glad you guys said it. He should just get his gangster Chrysler and call it a day. I don't understand how someone who is this critical of Lexus is considering a Stellantis product whose products have been sitting at the very bottom the reliability charts for over a decade. I'm sure somebody here can pick him up when he inevitably breaks down on the side of the road...

felixcat

Still, C&D's test process is identical all the years, they even provided detailed description on how the cars are tested. So their results can be cross-compared.

I am not "hating" any cars so you will see I distinguish facts and personal opinion in my writing, and I try my best to provide facts and logical analysis. It is understandable that providing negative facts of the IS500 on a IS500 forum will make owners unhappy, but I also writing similar info in other venues such as the Hellcat/allpar forums about design defects of their products, and of course Hellcat owners are not happy. But we all agree, facts are still facts.

C&D has done multiple tests over years (they call it long term test updates) on the 2008 IS-F and the results are consistent, so there is definitely something wrong on the IS500 - not to mention the media fleet IS500 has the tran-oil cooler installed, I cannot imagine how the consumer-grade IS500 performs without the trans cooler. I recently purchased some doc that has better detail information regarding the 3IS design which is even unavailable in the official TIS system, I have more discoveries but I will leave the findings to another article. There is a reason I do not sugarcoat any vehicle or any brand in my review articles, and I do not put up any advertisement or accepting sponsorship from auto makers on my website because that creates conflict of interests. As a side note, Lexus do have the motivation to detune, for example if the IS500 has identical or slightly better performance (due to lighter weight), and its MSRP is considerably cheaper, are you sure not a single RC-F potential buyer will jump ship?

Now let's focus on the technical side: why the 2008 IS-F with significant less hp/torque, and smaller final gear ratio, and inferior suspension without Torsen diff (we all admit the 2008-2009 IS-F suspension setup is not up to par, right?), will still outrun the IS500? Anyone work for Lexus/Toyota can shed some light?

AmbyBomb

Just buy a car already, mate, and stop with these stupid speculation exercises. The IS500 hasn't been detuned and the ISF doesn't run away from it as per the Lightning Lap results.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Lightning lap has been discussed in a ton of other threads. There are a lot of variables that contribute to the differences notably the different OEM tires on the vehicles, different drivers, temperature during testing day, VIR got repaved a few years ago which improved the surface, etc etc.

However, this is a thread about IS500 sales, let’s get back on topic


@felixcat , this forum is for IS500 owners and enthusiasts. If you are just going to be here to needle and poke I’ll ask you to move along. You want to discuss, pm me. Other folks let’s drop the personal comments please

felixcat

FYI, the data C&D reports are already adjusted for environmental factors such as barometric pressure, humidity, elevation etc., so their data can be cross-referenced. Not only C&D, there are other media's instrument test on the IS500 which yields similar results.

I always advocate an open mindset for ownership experience. Worship = easy to manipulate (just like how Stellantis uses all kinds of "scarcity" "las call" games recently to price gouging buyers), something we definitely not want to fall into. Not discussing something won't make that problem not exist or go away. I understand this is sales discussing thread, I can start another thread to dive deeper. But I want to emphasis, as we can see how Lexus handles those issues for the 2022 IS500, if the owner did not have a fundamental insight on the issue itself, Lexus will use all kinds of "easy explanation/fix" to dismiss the problem. The owners have to accept that since they do not have enough context to fight further, some of them do not get a very good solution in the end.

AmbyBomb

I have no idea what kind of point you're trying to make here, mate. There is zero reason for Lexus to have detuned the car below the advertised power rating, and there's no objective evidence to suggest this is the case.

Either buy the car or don't.

felixcat

Multiple test data simply does not support this. But anyway, could we move the discussion to another dedicated thread?

TipsyTonio

Or not have a thread at all...