ToYourGSE

I’d love to hear from those who’ve driven both.

Former 2010 ISF owner, and I loved the steering feel on that thing. Nice and weighted with great road feel. I’ve heard that the 2011+ ISF’s were programmed to have lighter steering but more road feel - so my basis of comparison is a 2010.

I’ve also heard the LC500 steering is lighter but it’s not an F sport model. My parents’ 2021 ES350’s (non F sport) steering is ok, decent feedback but I wish it was heavier.

FTR, besides my ISF, my favorite car to steer was my cousin’s 2006 X3, and my family’s 2010 Acura MDX (the X3 was significantly better than the MDX obv). My least favorite is my brothers 2013 Toyota Camry - which is so light and numb it’s beyond my contempt (my video game steering wheel felt better).

My goal is to get another 2UR-GSE at some point, either an IS500, LC500, or a later model GS-F with AVS. Unfortunately I won’t be going back to an IS-F because the ride is too harsh for my area.

I also would strongly prefer red with a non-black interior, and I’m pretty sure the 2018+ GSF’s (ones with AVS) only had black interiors on with MRMs. However I may be willing to settle for blue on white if the steering is significantly better than the IS500 and/or LC500. The GSFs also have that hockey puck, which is a disadvantage- I strongly prefer the trackpad. It also has an oil and trans cooler, but tbh I’d probably rarely if ever track it. But still nice to have.

Even though I’d rarely if ever track the car, even in city driving, I prefer connected and weighted steering - it’s so satisfying. I’d also use the car for long road trips, so the 21 gal tank on the LC is a huge plus - the range of a 2UR-GSE on a 17.4 gal tank is pathetic. But the LC more expensive and if I’d ever get an LC500 it would be used, whereas i could potentially get a new IS500 before the end of its production run (I’m working very hard ). And I’m guessing that since the IS500 is an F SPORT model, it would have heavier steering than the LC, but that’s just a guess, please correct me if I’m wrong.

Anyway, this got a bit Long and rambly, but please give me your thoughts.

P.S. - I think every car with electronic power steering, even economy cars, should have variable settings - independent of any sport mode. It can’t be that expensive to implement. Sometimes I want normal throttle/shifting for better MPG, without giving up steering feel. The default can be soft/comfort for the NPC’s but enthusiasts should be able to get sportier steering if they want it. It’s like 10 lines of code, some circuits, and a button.

jororo

Not to take the jam out of your donut, but in my opinion the IS 500 doesn’t have great steering feel. It is very direct and immediate, but doesn’t give a ton of road feel feedback through the steering wheel. Don’t get me wrong, it is nowhere near new BMW bad though, more along the lines of when the 911 switched to electronic power steering (2012ish models) … for me it is at most a mild disappointment having enjoyed much better.

Others on here definitely disagree with my perception so guessing it’s really about what your frame of reference is.

Separately don’t know how many options you’ll have to settle for alternate colors. Just not that many of them and most dealers are only getting two each, with their deposit wait list seemingly much longer. Hopefully that changes in early 2023.

macmaster

I've never actually driven an IS F surprisingly.

The IS500 and 2022 LC500 have pretty similar steering. They're both on the light side IMO. The GS F and RC F steering felt more true and handled better also.
Even my CT200h has heavier steering than the IS500. It's extremely noticeable when driven back-to-back.

ToYourGSE

Disappointing

Kinda sounds like my parents’ 2021 ES350. Direct and immediate, but not a lot of feedback (but a lot more than some other cars). It would be disappointing if it the IS& LC500 we’re the same as the ES350, so if someone drove both, please let us know.

Also before the ES350, my parents had a 2018 BMW 530i. I was SOOOO disappointed with the steering. It’s a shame BMW pussified the steering just to appease NPCs who bought it for the badge. Glad to hear the IS500 is better than that.

macmaster

Even if the ES350 has the same steering feel of the IS, I think the overall handling of the IS will be better due to the shorter wheel base and better suspension. ES has always felt like driving a boat.

I highly recommend test driving the IS500, which shouldn't be impossible now that there are used ones out there.

arentz07

I'm sorry, but it's not as good as a 991.1 steering. That car probably has the best EPS system I've ever experienced.

Having said that, I think the luxury tuning of this IS's steering makes sense given it's still a four-door cruiser at the end of the day. I think the steering also gets better the harder you push the car.

ToYourGSE

Not sure if you’ve driven the current Gen ES350, but if you haven’t you may be pleasantly surprised. I don’t think it’s as boaty as the previous generations. It’s not much softer/floatier than an accord V6. Obviously it’s a front wheel drive car, and corners like one. No getting around that. And tbh its biggest flaw IMO is V6 is FWD only - the wheels spin at medium throttle. So for hard runs from 0 it’s annoying. Why AWD is only available for the 4 cyl is beyond me. If anything it should be the opposite.

arentz07

As an IS 350 owner who had to spend about 5 days with an ES 350 loaner vehicle, I did a write-up on it here - https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...ner-think.html

In summary, the ES 350 is a nice car to drive. But, on a back road, it does not feel at home like an IS does. The IS just shrugs off corners, where the ES feels a bit reluctant. It handles pretty well, but it does not possess the precision or agility of an IS.

jororo

Really? Very different experience here … my 2012 911’s steering was absolute trash (and it didn’t have the even worse power steering plus). Huge drop off from my earlier Porsches, but they got their groove back with the 991.2 and later.

As to the ES350, would definitely say that steering is way, way lighter and far less communicative than the IS500. For reference, last one I drove was a loaner 2021 ES350 but it didn’t feel much different from some ES350 loaners around 2017/2018.

95bat

Agreed on all points. I had a 2019 ES 350 F Sport for 3 years. It was a big car, but didn't drive like a boat. The suspension in Sport+ actually felt stiffer than the IS 500 in Sport+.

arentz07

Interesting, I actually don't notice a huge difference in feel or weight between the IS and ES, though I guess the ES is a little lighter at low speeds.

But no, I think people severely exaggerated the problems with the switch to electric power steering in the 991. But for an electric system, it's not bad at all. Is it as good as the steering in its 981 siblings? Nah. But I was expecting it to be bad, and it was actually enjoyable and a lot more feelsome than what we get in these Lexus cars. But that isn't a bad thing - that's a sports car, but the IS is a sedan.

Frunkey

The steering feel is very light, but very accurate. It's not a car that someone will ever say "I can totally feel where the front wheels are." But it's not sloppy and doesn't have a huge dead zone on center. The IS500 is definitely more of a luxury cruiser than a true sports car. But I believe this is the appeal of the car: a comfortable ride for the 99% of the time you're driving normally, and a kick in the pants the 1% of the time you want to have fun.

95bat

A kick in the pants is not at all fun for me

Frunkey

Haha! I suppose I meant a kick in the ***, like pushing you to go faster. But, whatever one prefers 😄 🤣

ToYourGSE

I guess I'm in the tiny minority who wants a car that both rides smooth when you want, but with sporty steering feel. My ISF rode way too harsh, but I loved that steering. But BMW used to have both. My ideal car for driving feel and comfort would probably be an E60 BMW 545i (with more power). But those engines are absolute junk, not to mention the unreliability of everything else in that car.

To me, I find heavy and connected steering comforting. Feeling engaged and in control is warmly satisfying. I just don't want bumps to kick my a**.

What really frustrates me is that with electronic power steering, automakers, especially luxury ones, have the opportunity to give everyone what they want. But (most of them) aren't doing it. Literally a button, that can change the amount of assist you get. Not difficult.