IS500 Mule Spotted in SoCal
07-23-06, 01:41 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by akhbhaat
If Lexus wants to make a serious statement with this car, then they have to make a serious attempt to appeal to enthusiast drivers. Merely slapping a powerful V8 into the existing 2IS chassis is going to steal away some AMG buyers, but the typical M3 buyer won't even look at it. You must also consider the fact that the M3 name has HUGE badge cachet - it's a widely recognized automotive icon.
Here's what I'm wondering:
-What does Lexus plan to do about weight? These are performance cars, remember, not luxury cruisers. The IS350 is already a fat pig, and this greatly damages the car's agility and roadholding manners. It can only follow that the IS500 will be even heavier with a V8, unless Lexus makes extensive use of aluminum alloys or other composites - which will drive the price up considerably. In order to penetrate this segment, Lexus must do what they've always done - try to win buyers on value for money.
-Manual transmission?
Here's what I'm wondering:
-What does Lexus plan to do about weight? These are performance cars, remember, not luxury cruisers. The IS350 is already a fat pig, and this greatly damages the car's agility and roadholding manners. It can only follow that the IS500 will be even heavier with a V8, unless Lexus makes extensive use of aluminum alloys or other composites - which will drive the price up considerably. In order to penetrate this segment, Lexus must do what they've always done - try to win buyers on value for money.
-Manual transmission?
07-23-06, 04:42 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by flipside909
These photos look like I-10 going through Indio, Cathedral City, Palm Springs area. They have ugly concrete pavement with tar covered expansion joints just as they are in the photos. They use those guardrails heavily in that area.
BTW, Those photos are no where near the 91 Freeway. Take it from someone who has travelled the 91 freeway from each end several times (Riverside to Gardena and back) in the last 2 weeks.
BTW, Those photos are no where near the 91 Freeway. Take it from someone who has travelled the 91 freeway from each end several times (Riverside to Gardena and back) in the last 2 weeks.
07-23-06, 04:48 PM
#49
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On the bright side, at least Lexus didn't make the performance IS a hybrid. Personally, I think the performance of the IS350 is more than most people can handle anyway, especially if they turn of the stability control.
07-23-06, 09:23 PM
#50
Originally Posted by daveortega
Last time I checked, the IS350 challenged the 330i and lost. I'm with you in that the IS is a better all around car with great acceleration, but an M competitor it is not.
Javier
07-23-06, 09:35 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by akhbhaat
-What does Lexus plan to do about weight? These are performance cars, remember, not luxury cruisers. The IS350 is already a fat pig, and this greatly damages the car's agility and roadholding manners. It can only follow that the IS500 will be even heavier with a V8, unless Lexus makes extensive use of aluminum alloys or other composites - which will drive the price up considerably. In order to penetrate this segment, Lexus must do what they've always done - try to win buyers on value for money.
-Manual transmission?
-Manual transmission?
07-23-06, 10:47 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
You ever thought, this is the Lexus interpretation of a high performance sports sedan. For those that want a true hard edged car, Lexus is NOT that brand.
Lexus is not targetting M3 or AMG owners, they are targetting their own customer base that has been begging them to make a high performance sports sedan so they can have similar performance to the German sports sedans all the while maintain all the creature comforts that come with a Lexus.
07-23-06, 11:02 PM
#53
Originally Posted by Ramon
I agree, I'd rather have a sports sedan like the IS with all the luxury amanities and sacrafice a bit of performance rather than an all out sports car.
Lexus is not targetting M3 or AMG owners, they are targetting their own customer base that has been begging them to make a high performance sports sedan so they can have similar performance to the German sports sedans all the while maintain all the creature comforts that come with a Lexus.
Lexus is not targetting M3 or AMG owners, they are targetting their own customer base that has been begging them to make a high performance sports sedan so they can have similar performance to the German sports sedans all the while maintain all the creature comforts that come with a Lexus.
I wouldn't mind sacrificing very little amounts of handing for acceleration, quality, luxury, reliability, looks, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. People who want flat-out-hard-core performance vehicles for the track buys Elises.
07-24-06, 01:17 AM
#54
Ok I understand the //M3 is in a category by it self.
But, it is still a 3 Series, just classified as an //M3 (which i call Monster 3 series)
So here is my point.
I would have liked it if Lexus would have classified their //M3 challenger with a common badge.
For example a regular "IS350" and a "IS350 Sport/ Something" still representing the same class.
To me it looks like they're branding an entirely new class, just to compete with the //M3
I would have expected maybe a "IS500" "IS500 Sport Class" to compete with the //M5, etc.
I hope you understand my point.
BTW, I chose my IS350 over a BMW 3 series. Now an //M differ story : )
But, it is still a 3 Series, just classified as an //M3 (which i call Monster 3 series)
So here is my point.
I would have liked it if Lexus would have classified their //M3 challenger with a common badge.
For example a regular "IS350" and a "IS350 Sport/ Something" still representing the same class.
To me it looks like they're branding an entirely new class, just to compete with the //M3
I would have expected maybe a "IS500" "IS500 Sport Class" to compete with the //M5, etc.
I hope you understand my point.
BTW, I chose my IS350 over a BMW 3 series. Now an //M differ story : )
07-24-06, 01:27 AM
#55
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding you... How is an IS500 an entirely new class? The 500 (assuming for the moment that is what it is called) is to the IS class what the M3 is to the 3 series class and what the C55/63 is to the C class, what the CTS-V is to the CTS class, etc etc. This is not any different. The IS is not even in the same class as an M5, the comparisons between the IS350 and 330i and the IS500 and the M3 are right where they should be. The M5 is a 5 series which is GS territory, not IS.
07-24-06, 01:33 AM
#56
Originally Posted by Ramon
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you... How is an IS500 an entirely new class? The 500 (assuming for the moment that is what it is called) is to the IS class what the M3 is to the 3 series class and what the C55/63 is to the C class, what the CTS-V is to the CTS class, etc etc. This is not any different. The IS is not even in the same class as an M5, the comparisons between the IS350 and 330i and the IS500 and the M3 are right where they should be. The M5 is a 5 series which is GS territory, not IS.
I can understand that. I know the IS class is still labeled the "IS" But the versioning its what I was talking about.
So what’s after the 350 base? Will it remain a 350v2,v3 etc (350i,c,d,e)
Or will it move onto a is400 (most likely)?
Ok so how about we just call it the //IS M3 challenger
And never mind about the IS competing with the //M5... my mistake
Ment the GS...
Last edited by t0e; 07-24-06 at 01:42 AM. Reason: correction on //M5 stuff
07-24-06, 01:46 AM
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Again, I'm really not sure what you're talking about... IS350 base??? Not sure what that means, nor do I think they will be broken up into "version"... It's really quite simple how it will evolve.
2006 IS350
2007 IS350
2008 IS350... etc... etc... etc.. Until Lexus decides to revamp the model, but lets not get ahead of ourselves here... The car has existed for less than a year.
2006 IS350
2007 IS350
2008 IS350... etc... etc... etc.. Until Lexus decides to revamp the model, but lets not get ahead of ourselves here... The car has existed for less than a year.
07-24-06, 01:51 AM
#58
Originally Posted by Ramon
Again, I'm really not sure what you're talking about... IS350 base??? Not sure what that means, nor do I think they will be broken up into "version"... It's really quite simple how it will evolve.
2006 IS350
2007 IS350
2008 IS350... etc... etc... etc.. Until Lexus decides to revamp the model, but lets not get ahead of ourselves here... The car has existed for less than a year.
2006 IS350
2007 IS350
2008 IS350... etc... etc... etc.. Until Lexus decides to revamp the model, but lets not get ahead of ourselves here... The car has existed for less than a year.
I see!!!
07-24-06, 05:34 AM
#59
Originally Posted by daveortega
Last time I checked, the IS350 challenged the 330i and lost. I'm with you in that the IS is a better all around car with great acceleration, but an M competitor it is not. I have to imagine that the 335i closes the gap, if not better.
The 330i showed problems with the push botton start system, the ABS (serious issues), air-bag warning system, the A/C struggled in the heat and not one of these issues effected its rating! Sorry I personally don't see how anyone can honestly say the 330i is the better vehicle.
Koz
07-24-06, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Koz
I find that ALL the comparisons I've read are very subjective and based on carefully selected criteria. For instance; Car and Driver did a very comprehensive comparison but showed they definitely were bias and purposely left out vital features that would have put the BMW lower in the raking, let me give you examples. One of the most important aspects of comparison is reliability. Nowhere in the comparison criteria was reliability used. Yet, very subjective criteria was used, such as: int/ext styling, rebates/discounts, got-to-have-it-factor, etc. The BMW test model had serious electrical problems and developed a problem with its ABS where they hit the brakes and the car did a 360 at 70 mph. Because of the braking problem they could not perform the braking test from 70 mph, so they used a previous test (which by the way was not as short as the IS). The reason I bring this up as an example is because braking distance was not even used as part of the criteria. Let’s see, accelerates faster and stops sooner, Hmm! You can see where I'm going with this. When all was said and done the IS came 1 point (213 to 212) less then the 330i, which put it in second place. The funny part to me is when ever any BMW enthusiast talk about comparing the 330i to the IS350 they make it sound like it is this far superior vehicle. I just don't see it. I test drove both vehicles and can honestly say that the 330i does feel more like a sports car but does not come anywhere near the overall power of the IS 350. In the real world (on the street) the IS is so close in the other performance areas that I can see why BMW had to drastically re-design the 330i.
The 330i showed problems with the push botton start system, the ABS (serious issues), air-bag warning system, the A/C struggled in the heat and not one of these issues effected its rating! Sorry I personally don't see how anyone can honestly say the 330i is the better vehicle.
Koz
The 330i showed problems with the push botton start system, the ABS (serious issues), air-bag warning system, the A/C struggled in the heat and not one of these issues effected its rating! Sorry I personally don't see how anyone can honestly say the 330i is the better vehicle.
Koz
I would also like to see someone compare these vehicles with the IS350 VDIM turned off. I beleive that this alone would change the rankings. The VDIM hinders the IS too much. The only consistant remark that the testers had for the BMW over the IS was road feel and handling. The road feel is true, but I am happy with the IS. The handling would be alot closer with the VDIM disabled.