lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Typically yes, but in this case because the stroke is pretty long, no. 84 - 86mm stroke would be much better for high rpm operation from a piston kinetics perspective. But then the bore would have to increase significantly, and no Toyota block these days is overbore friendly.

vip3r1850

I want to see over 420 jus to say class leading hp with we're considering the m3 in our class which i think is retarded. A 4 door to a 2 door . . . anyways i will always laugh at how m3 has 414 hp and like 258 tq LMAO!!!!! I dont care how high it revs lexus really outshines with the amount of hp and the tq close behind it. Ya im an american muscle guy tq > hp any day

05RollaXRS

^^^^

Where did you get the 258 ft-lbs for the new M3? It is actually ~299 ft-lbs.

Audi brought out RS4 in order to outperform the E46 M3 despite the 4 doors when the V8 S4 could not compete with the E46 M3. Although, BMW will bring out the 4-door M3 next year, it is the price range that dictates what cars compete in the class and not number of doors. Samething with the C63 AMG.

If sheer number of HP is selling factor for you, you may as well look into the Mercedes C63 AMG with the 6.2 Liter V8 and 455 HP. It will also give the most low end torque as well. A classic muscle car formula.

Not to mention crank HP is only a figure. What really matters is how much it puts down to the wheels. German automakers especially BMW is notorious for underrating it's cars for insurance reasons.

dgsvt

Is it 299? Is that in the USA? So it looks like the 335i has more torque than the new M3? Interesting... I wonder if the magazines will test the 2008 M3 against a chipped 335i? Doubt it... I can't wait for the first mag to do a "comparo" test of the '08 IS-f, C63, RS4 & M3. I think the Lexus will have no problem holding it's own...

M3 V8
414hp @ 8300
295tq @ 3900

335i
300hp @ 5600
300tq @ 1400-5000

05RollaXRS

Not really. From the curve graphs BMW released, the M3 is getting 90% of it's peak torque by only 1800 rpm. The 335 gets almost all of it's torque at 1500 rpm, which is a bit higher down low, but still no significant difference.

The bigger difference is in M3 producing the flat torque curve uptill 8300 rpm (hence the additional 90 higher HP rating) while the 335 only produces the flat torque curve until 6000 rpm. The torque falls on it's face for the 335i from 6000 - 7000 rpm redline. The gearing also makes a big difference in acceleration.

Having said that, many magazines are advertising already about a direct comparo of the RS4, C63, M3 and IS-F. It will definitely be interesting to see how it plays out.

dgsvt

So... Is it actually ~299 ft-lbs or is it 295 like I said?
Is it 390 hp (90hp more than 335) or is it 414 like I said?
I just want to make sure I have the correct numbers to compare when the IS-F numbers are revealed. Either way I think the IS-F is going to blow BMW's number away. The only one close will be the C63.

05RollaXRS

In North America, it will be 414 HP and 295 ft-lbs of torque (the 390 HP was a mistake. It is 114 HP more).

Mind you the M3 ran a 4.4 sec and 12.8 secs on the 1/4 mile with siginificant margin for improvement since it was in very hot conditions and slippery conditions (rear tires did not grip). When all is said and done, it will be most likely 4.3 secs and 12.6 - 12.7 at the 1/4 mile.

Around a race track, it is the first full-weight GT sport car that has run under 8:00 at Nurburgring.

At the end of the day, the IS-F will be a very impressive car, but I have yet to see one Lexus that has been able to topple over a BMW especially M-cars.

RocketGuy3

iTrader: (1)

I think he was just referring to HP/torque numbers. And let's be real... those are all the performance numbers a lot of people will consider very closely.

dgsvt

I was referring to the HP/Tq #'s. I agree with you that these are the numbers most people consider along with 0-60 & 1/4 mile.

I think Lexus is very smart for keeping the numbers a secret. Look at what happened when the is350 came out. BMW & Infinity were scrambling to catch up to the performace bar (Magazine Stats) set with the is350. Why was the 06 BMW 330i only a one yr model? It was 51hp & 57tq short of the is350 that's why...

Now the IS-F is a different monster in a different market. You have 2 players with screaming engines and another that's a torquey beast. The Lexus engine has a lot of potential like the Merecedes, but must keep the tune conservative enought for emissions, no gas guzzler plus have the reliability of a Toyota. If they do that, it will be a winner. I doubt Lexus will dissappoint.

M3 414@8300 295@3900 103.5 hp/L
RS4 420@7800 317@6000 100 hp/L
ISF 436+ 395+ 87.2 hp/L
C63 451@6800 443@5000 72.74 hp/L

vip3r1850

I just hope its more than the rs4, and ill be just fine with it being less than the c63 . . . I still think hp/tq #'s mean nothing, its the 1/4 mile and 0-60 times that count.

05RollaXRS

^^^

If 0-60 and 1/4 mile is your thing, the RS4 is already the slowest of the bunch due to it's heavy weight (with a 0-60 in 4.6 secs and 1/4 mile in 13.0 secs) and even slower around a race track. The upcoming RS5 is where it's at.

vip3r1850

Well with the 0-60 in "Less than 4.9" i won't be surprised if its 4.8 make IT the slowest of the bunch . . . i hope i dont waste all these months waiting and be disappointed

Actually if anyones paying any attention the estimated 2008 bmw m3 0-60 speed is hardly any faster than the current gen. Their expecting it within 5 second range , some say 4.8 is the fastest itll ever go and it was designed to just go really fast (high speeds) instead of giddy up off the line . . .

Sources cause i know everyone will ask:

http://www.autosite.com/content/shar...le_id_int/1513

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/04/06/o...-bmw-m3-coupe/

and the list just goes on and on

05RollaXRS

You seriously believe the E46 M3 is as quick as an E92 M3 with 90 less HP? The links you posted are giving estimates based on BMW's claims. It is still far away from release date (it will actually arrive in showrooms months after IS-F)

BMW officially claims 4.8 secs for 0 - 100 KM (which is 62 mph), but BMW also claimed the 335 runs 0-60 in 5.6 seconds and 5.2 seconds for E46 M3 when both of them are much faster than that.

"In our limited test, the M3 charged to 60 miles an hour in 4.4 seconds. That’s 0.4 second quicker than the last M3 we tested, despite a slippery road surface and hurried test schedule. Expect the ’08 to be even quicker when we get a chance to conduct a full road test."

http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtest...08-bmw-m3.html


I posted earlier that M3 sprinted the 0-60 in 4.4 secs and 1/4 mile in 12.8 secs (as opposed to 4.8 and 13.4 secs for the E46 M3) in Car and driver early tests in very hot conditions with a lot of wheel spin of Spain.

vip3r1850

/\ /\ /\

Car and driver is weird, they test all their cars like a bunch of weirdos. They got the is 350 doin 0-60 in 4.9 <------ so the ISF is just as fast as the 350 ??? lemme save time and money and get the 350 now . . .

05RollaXRS

When did they test the IS-F? It has not even been road tested yet. It is Lexus that officially claimed 4.9 secs, but must be conservative.

Besides, the IS350 was tested at 5.1 secs to 60 mph and 13.8 mph to the 1/4 mile.