Lexus.com updates on IS-F
10-02-07, 12:28 AM
#46
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That may be true, but the bottom line is going to be it's performance against it's competition. I don't see it performing as well as the C63. That in itself isn't very surprising given the C63's significant displacement advantage. However, I don't see the IS-F responding to performance mod's as well as the C63 either. If we go by the preliminary reports, coaxing 500HP out of that motor (C63) is said to be mere childs play.
I have confidence that the 2UR-GSE will be able to respond well to mods.
10-02-07, 12:29 AM
#47
i just watched the videos and all i can say is "wow". if you watch the front lip as the cars are going around the curves, there is very little body roll. very impressive.
all this talk about the engine... what about the tranmission?!? this transmission is gonna be sweet!
all this talk about the engine... what about the tranmission?!? this transmission is gonna be sweet!
10-02-07, 01:03 AM
#48
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It's hardly a "jump" it's much more like a very well educated guess based on the evidance at hand. I'm a realist, not a brand loyalist. We already know the 2GR-FSE doesn't respond well to mods and IMO it is reasonable to assume the same for the 2UR-GSE, since really the biggest difference between the two is the addition of 2 cylinders.
10-02-07, 01:18 AM
#49
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It's hardly a "jump" it's much more like a very well educated guess based on the evidance at hand. I'm a realist, not a brand loyalist. We already know the 2GR-FSE doesn't respond well to mods and IMO it is reasonable to assume the same for the 2UR-GSE, since really the biggest difference between the two is the addition of 2 cylinders.
Most people just don't understand the injector setup on the engine, but it has huge potential.
Plus, the engine is still very new so you need to give the aftermarket some time. I wonder if you're part of the same group of people that back in 1995 said the 2JZ did not respond well to mods. Look where the 2JZ is now. Or how about UZ critics? Well look how far the aftermarket has come.
Blitz in Japan has a supercharger setup that pushes the 2GR-FSE to over 400HP, and Tom's Japan has their compressor kit that pushes power to around 360HP. That's 360HP in a fully streetable and very reliable setup. Give it two more years and you'll see even more potential out of the 2GR.
10-02-07, 08:23 AM
#50
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Talk is cheap... You're all about "theory" I'm talking real life. It's been two years, and as of yet it has not responded well to any mods, including boost. Until that changes, I am certainly not mistaken.
How much does the toms kit cost? Is it even available? You can throw tons of money in ANY car and make good power, but having to spend several thousand dollars for a 50hp incrase is not my idea of responding well to mods. Like I said, i'm a realist, that's the difference between you and I. I don't go out of my way to defend or make excuses for any brand.
How much does the toms kit cost? Is it even available? You can throw tons of money in ANY car and make good power, but having to spend several thousand dollars for a 50hp incrase is not my idea of responding well to mods. Like I said, i'm a realist, that's the difference between you and I. I don't go out of my way to defend or make excuses for any brand.
10-02-07, 11:26 AM
#51
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Talk is cheap... You're all about "theory" I'm talking real life. It's been two years, and as of yet it has not responded well to any mods, including boost. Until that changes, I am certainly not mistaken.
How much does the toms kit cost? Is it even available? You can throw tons of money in ANY car and make good power, but having to spend several thousand dollars for a 50hp incrase is not my idea of responding well to mods. Like I said, i'm a realist, that's the difference between you and I. I don't go out of my way to defend or make excuses for any brand.
How much does the toms kit cost? Is it even available? You can throw tons of money in ANY car and make good power, but having to spend several thousand dollars for a 50hp incrase is not my idea of responding well to mods. Like I said, i'm a realist, that's the difference between you and I. I don't go out of my way to defend or make excuses for any brand.
The 2GR engine can get 20hp from an intake-exhaust upgrade. I would call that responding just fine. The only engines that have extensive aftermarket support out the door are Honda engines. Jeez, its been 2 years and its not like the everyday tuner has the kind of money to spend on an IS350 and then set out extensively modifying it.
Hell, look how long it took to get big power out of the UZ, JZ etc.
Be reasonable
10-02-07, 04:46 PM
#52
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First of all, 20HP is an optomistic figure given by manufacturers. Second of all, that "20hp" increase comes at the cost of your IS350 NOT being street legal becuase you eliminate the cats. So a 20HP increase nets you a 40k car that you can no longer drive legally on the streets, and you call that responding well to mods? That is reasonable? Gimmie a break.
Very few intakes allow our engiens to make more power, and none of them significant. Most of them do not give any power at all, some lose power. The only exhaust systems that provide anything even remotly benificial are the ones that eliminate the cats. The IS350 starts out as a mid 13 second car bone stock, after two years of aftermarket the fastest reported time I've seen on here is low 13's... Only at clublexus would that be considered responding well to mods. I'm am being quite reasonable... I've had my car dyno'd with three different intakes so it isn't like I'm pulling this out of my butt.
Very few intakes allow our engiens to make more power, and none of them significant. Most of them do not give any power at all, some lose power. The only exhaust systems that provide anything even remotly benificial are the ones that eliminate the cats. The IS350 starts out as a mid 13 second car bone stock, after two years of aftermarket the fastest reported time I've seen on here is low 13's... Only at clublexus would that be considered responding well to mods. I'm am being quite reasonable... I've had my car dyno'd with three different intakes so it isn't like I'm pulling this out of my butt.
10-02-07, 04:54 PM
#53
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Guys, the days of modding cars adding parts left are right are coming to an end. We have active way bars, high compression engines, direct injection etc.
Hell, it wasn't until Lance at Toyomoto cracked the Lexus ECU in the IS that things started moving.
Its about the code, not slapping an intake and exhaust. All the more why the IS-F is important, you want a higher performing Lexus, you buy that.
Yeah it sucks you can't do it yourself, but hey, you can buy an IS 300 and boost it all day long!!
Hell, it wasn't until Lance at Toyomoto cracked the Lexus ECU in the IS that things started moving.
Its about the code, not slapping an intake and exhaust. All the more why the IS-F is important, you want a higher performing Lexus, you buy that.
Yeah it sucks you can't do it yourself, but hey, you can buy an IS 300 and boost it all day long!!
10-02-07, 05:15 PM
#54
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I think you are being unrealistic. What I'm saying has nothing to do with theory. Guess what, you want mods that give LOTS of power, keep the car reliable, that cost very little, AND that are street legal? Sorry dude but it's pretty tough to get all that, even on a Honda. If you want mods that give lots of power, are reliable, and are legal, then it's going to cost you quite a bit of money, no matter what brand of cars we're talking about. And yes, this applies to Hondas too.
The Tom's kit is pricey, but again you are getting a VERY RELIABLE power boost to 360HP and a nice torque increase. I'm also not sure, but I believe that you still keep the warranty with the Tom's kit. You also get an ECU upgrade that I believe takes off the speed limiter, among other things.
I'd like you to name a luxury brand or luxury car that "responds well to mods" and don't say the 335i with just a chip. That voids the warranty so automatically by your logic it's not reasonable.
Also don't mention a Civic or some low end car, as we are specifically discussing luxury cars here.
Fact is, if you want big power boosts for a low amount of money, it's either going to void the warranty or it's going to be an unreliable setup. In this case you can't have your cake and eat it too.
The Tom's kit is pricey, but again you are getting a VERY RELIABLE power boost to 360HP and a nice torque increase. I'm also not sure, but I believe that you still keep the warranty with the Tom's kit. You also get an ECU upgrade that I believe takes off the speed limiter, among other things.
I'd like you to name a luxury brand or luxury car that "responds well to mods" and don't say the 335i with just a chip. That voids the warranty so automatically by your logic it's not reasonable.
Also don't mention a Civic or some low end car, as we are specifically discussing luxury cars here.
Fact is, if you want big power boosts for a low amount of money, it's either going to void the warranty or it's going to be an unreliable setup. In this case you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Last edited by TRDFantasy; 10-02-07 at 05:19 PM.
10-02-07, 05:20 PM
#55
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First of all, 20HP is an optomistic figure given by manufacturers. Second of all, that "20hp" increase comes at the cost of your IS350 NOT being street legal becuase you eliminate the cats. So a 20HP increase nets you a 40k car that you can no longer drive legally on the streets, and you call that responding well to mods? That is reasonable? Gimmie a break.
Very few intakes allow our engiens to make more power, and none of them significant. Most of them do not give any power at all, some lose power. The only exhaust systems that provide anything even remotly benificial are the ones that eliminate the cats. The IS350 starts out as a mid 13 second car bone stock, after two years of aftermarket the fastest reported time I've seen on here is low 13's... Only at clublexus would that be considered responding well to mods. I'm am being quite reasonable... I've had my car dyno'd with three different intakes so it isn't like I'm pulling this out of my butt.
Very few intakes allow our engiens to make more power, and none of them significant. Most of them do not give any power at all, some lose power. The only exhaust systems that provide anything even remotly benificial are the ones that eliminate the cats. The IS350 starts out as a mid 13 second car bone stock, after two years of aftermarket the fastest reported time I've seen on here is low 13's... Only at clublexus would that be considered responding well to mods. I'm am being quite reasonable... I've had my car dyno'd with three different intakes so it isn't like I'm pulling this out of my butt.
new era, new way of doing things.
10-02-07, 05:28 PM
#56
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I think you are being unrealistic. What I'm saying has nothing to do with theory. Guess what, you want mods that give LOTS of power, keep the car reliable, that cost very little, AND that are street legal? Sorry dude but it's pretty tough to get all that, even on a Honda. If you want mods that give lots of power, are reliable, and are legal, then it's going to cost you quite a bit of money, no matter what brand of cars we're talking about. And yes, this applies to Hondas too.
The Tom's kit is pricey, but again you are getting a VERY RELIABLE power boost to 360HP and a nice torque increase. I'm also not sure, but I believe that you still keep the warranty with the Tom's kit. You also get an ECU upgrade that I believe takes off the speed limiter, among other things.
I'd like you to name a luxury brand or luxury car that "responds well to mods" and don't say the 335i with just a chip. That voids the warranty so automatically by your logic it's not reasonable.
Also don't mention a Civic or some low end car, as we are specifically discussing luxury cars here.
Fact is, if you want big power boosts for a low amount of money, it's either going to void the warranty or it's going to be an unreliable setup. In this case you can't have your cake and eat it too.
The Tom's kit is pricey, but again you are getting a VERY RELIABLE power boost to 360HP and a nice torque increase. I'm also not sure, but I believe that you still keep the warranty with the Tom's kit. You also get an ECU upgrade that I believe takes off the speed limiter, among other things.
I'd like you to name a luxury brand or luxury car that "responds well to mods" and don't say the 335i with just a chip. That voids the warranty so automatically by your logic it's not reasonable.
Also don't mention a Civic or some low end car, as we are specifically discussing luxury cars here.
Fact is, if you want big power boosts for a low amount of money, it's either going to void the warranty or it's going to be an unreliable setup. In this case you can't have your cake and eat it too.
What you said has everything to do with theory, beucase nothing is proven yet, that by defination is theory my friend. And please give your toyota/lexus hype a rest. It is not that hard to get a realiable 50hp increase, titanium valves are not the best thing since sliced bread either.
We can go back and forth all day long, I can prove my point, you cannot. You can preach to the chior about all that "can be" all you want, but until it happens, its a moot point.
As far as the "new way of doing thngs" is concerned, well until the aftermarket learns how do things in a new way, that point is also moot.
10-02-07, 05:34 PM
#57
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Awesome videos!!
...although I do agree that the way they drive the IS-F in VDIM sport mode makes it look as if the sport mode is totally useless, with neither safety nor fun.
...although I do agree that the way they drive the IS-F in VDIM sport mode makes it look as if the sport mode is totally useless, with neither safety nor fun.
10-02-07, 06:15 PM
#58
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How is chipping by my logic not reasonable? I said street legal, not keeping the warranty as just about any mod voids the warranty, so the 335i with just a chip is indeed a car that responds well to mods. Name another? Sure, the E55, pulley swap anyone? The C63 is almost gauranteed to respond well to mods since the exact same engine is putting out 500+HP in just about every other AMG vehicle it is being used in. Please don't try and skew what I say to try and turn it in your favor, it isn't going to work.
What you said has everything to do with theory, beucase nothing is proven yet, that by defination is theory my friend. And please give your toyota/lexus hype a rest. It is not that hard to get a realiable 50hp increase, titanium valves are not the best thing since sliced bread either.
We can go back and forth all day long, I can prove my point, you cannot. You can preach to the chior about all that "can be" all you want, but until it happens, its a moot point.
As far as the "new way of doing thngs" is concerned, well until the aftermarket learns how do things in a new way, that point is also moot.
What you said has everything to do with theory, beucase nothing is proven yet, that by defination is theory my friend. And please give your toyota/lexus hype a rest. It is not that hard to get a realiable 50hp increase, titanium valves are not the best thing since sliced bread either.
We can go back and forth all day long, I can prove my point, you cannot. You can preach to the chior about all that "can be" all you want, but until it happens, its a moot point.
As far as the "new way of doing thngs" is concerned, well until the aftermarket learns how do things in a new way, that point is also moot.
How much power boost does a pulley swap give an E55? How reliable is the car after the swap?
You're only speculating as to how well the C63 will respond to mods, you don't know for a fact, not yet. What you're doing is no different than what I'm doing. What you're talking about is TUNING differences with the 6.2L AMG, NOT how well the engine responds to mods. Tell me specifically what reliable, street legal mods are there for the 6.2L AMG engine and how much those mods cost.
Again, the Tom's kit gives 54HP increase for the IS350, while keeping emissions complaint, keeping everything very reliable, and also likely keeping your warranty.
There is the Blitz S/C kit in Japan that pushes the IS350 to about 408HP. How is that not responding well to mods? The Blitz kit as far as I know is street legal, and it's a reliable setup.
You have to understand there has never been a big aftermarket for Lexus products until only recently. With the high performance engines Lexus now offers, the aftermarket is growing.
The E55 is HOW old compared to the IS350?
Like SICK said, you can buy an older IS300 and get tons of reliable, street legal mods for that car. That car has an established aftermarket, and it uses a very old engine from the Supra, which is where the huge established aftermarket comes from.
Let me state again, in 1995 there were not that many mods for an MK4 Supra. You CANNOT expect a HUGE amount of mods for an IS350 in two years, ESPECIALLY seeing as the aftermarket for Lexus products has historically been limited.
The aftermarket for Benz and BMW products has been much bigger in comparison. Just because there might be very little available mods for the IS350 does NOT mean "it doesn't respond well to mods" ... it just means aftermarket support is limited.
People still haven't figured out the IS350 ECU and injector setup. When that occurs, it will be a BIG step and open the door for A LOT of mods.
I'm not going to convince you of anything, as your mind has already been set and regardless of what I or anyone else says you will continue to believe that the IS350 and IS-F "won't respond well to mods". Even if Lexus with their F-accessories unveils a supercharger that will up IS-F power by over 100HP, you still likely won't be satisfied.
You don't understand the tuning possibilities that VVT-iE and D4-S allow for, but that doesn't mean it's not true. The IS350 has lots of tuning potential, most of which has not been yet discovered. The IS-F will also have lots of tuning potential that will take time to discover.
10-02-07, 06:22 PM
#59
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You're right, I am speculating on the C63, but I also gave other examples that are not speculation. Also, my speculation on the C63 is based on far more evidence than your speculation of the IS-F. The engine in the C63 is already in other cars producing 500+HP, that alone is more than what you've got to go on.
A simple google search will yield you the answers you are looking for as far as power gains are concerned.
As far as the IS ECU is concerned, you may or may not be correct, but I'll say it again, it is a moot point becuase as of right now, as of this converstaion, it has not been completely figured out. Once it has, then you may have some solid facts, until then, you do not, end of story.
And I never said that the IS350 "won't respond well to mods" I said that it DOES NOT respond well to mods. I'll ask you again to please stop skewing my words in your favor, I did not say that and that is the second time you mis-quoted me to try and prove a point and it is the second time you failed. I'm speaking in the hear and now. You are speaking about what "may be" in the future and trying to apply it to the present, typical fanboy move.
A simple google search will yield you the answers you are looking for as far as power gains are concerned.
As far as the IS ECU is concerned, you may or may not be correct, but I'll say it again, it is a moot point becuase as of right now, as of this converstaion, it has not been completely figured out. Once it has, then you may have some solid facts, until then, you do not, end of story.
And I never said that the IS350 "won't respond well to mods" I said that it DOES NOT respond well to mods. I'll ask you again to please stop skewing my words in your favor, I did not say that and that is the second time you mis-quoted me to try and prove a point and it is the second time you failed. I'm speaking in the hear and now. You are speaking about what "may be" in the future and trying to apply it to the present, typical fanboy move.
Last edited by Ramon; 10-02-07 at 06:27 PM.
10-02-07, 06:46 PM
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You're right, I am speculating on the C63, but I also gave other examples that are not speculation. Also, my speculation on the C63 is based on far more evidence than your speculation of the IS-F. The engine in the C63 is already in other cars producing 500+HP, that alone is more than what you've got to go on.
A simple google search will yield you the answers you are looking for as far as power gains are concerned.
As far as the IS ECU is concerned, you may or may not be correct, but I'll say it again, it is a moot point becuase as of right now, as of this converstaion, it has not been completely figured out. Once it has, then you may have some solid facts, until then, you do not, end of story.
And I never said that the IS350 "won't respond well to mods" I said that it DOES NOT respond well to mods. I'll ask you again to please stop skewing my words in your favor, I did not say that and that is the second time you mis-quoted me to try and prove a point and it is the second time you failed. I'm speaking in the hear and now. You are speaking about what "may be" in the future and trying to apply it to the present, typical fanboy move.
A simple google search will yield you the answers you are looking for as far as power gains are concerned.
As far as the IS ECU is concerned, you may or may not be correct, but I'll say it again, it is a moot point becuase as of right now, as of this converstaion, it has not been completely figured out. Once it has, then you may have some solid facts, until then, you do not, end of story.
And I never said that the IS350 "won't respond well to mods" I said that it DOES NOT respond well to mods. I'll ask you again to please stop skewing my words in your favor, I did not say that and that is the second time you mis-quoted me to try and prove a point and it is the second time you failed. I'm speaking in the hear and now. You are speaking about what "may be" in the future and trying to apply it to the present, typical fanboy move.
In the HERE AND NOW, the IS350 has more mods selection than a C63. THe IS-F has no mods because the car is not out yet.
An IS300 has more mod selection than an E55, in the HERE and NOW.
If you're ONLY talking about the HERE and NOW, then don't be hypocritical by making assumptions and claims about the IS-F considering the car is not out yet and you're making assumptions about the future.
The onus is on you to provide some specific numbers and info about E55 mods or AMG 6.2L mods. Sure I can do a Google search about it anytime, but you were the one who brought up these models in the first place so it's only reasonable that you provide some sort of backup.