View Poll Results: Are you happy with the IS-F's speed performance?
I'm very disappointed with the numbers
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37
29.84%
I'm very happy with the numbers
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35
28.23%
I'm neither too happy nor too disappointed
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52
41.94%
Voters: 124. You may not vote on this poll
Are you happy or disappointed with the IS-F numbers?
#61
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Whatever the debate after my post of the JEEP - my point to all this madness is that a JEEP can achieve similar times with the ISF thus weighing 1000 pounds more and having 3 gears less and 4 Hp more. I'm not knocking the JEEP - i'm suggesting - if a JEEP can achieve mid 4 sec 0-60 times why can't the ISF be faster with more technology and better gearing (more gears) and weighing 1000 pounds less???
I mean - the JEEP is not a magical unicorn that defies the laws of physics.. It does what it was design to do - and it does it very well.. and according to all the wonderful talks about the ISF - I am asking - how did the ISF fall short ? The ISF is "suppose" to be a lot faster than the JEEP but the ISF only have similar times with the JEEP..and the JEEP is not just a straight line monster - it has a respectable skid pad rating at 0.85g which is better than most sports sedans (isn't the M3's skidpad at 0.87g) so this is very very good for an SUV that weighs 4800 pounds..
Edit: the IS350's skid pad rating is 0.80g and the GS430 skid pad is 0.85g. So would this JEEP flip on a track like someone said? I think not - just because its an American product does not mean its inferior to a Japanese product.
Now - Continue discussion.
I mean - the JEEP is not a magical unicorn that defies the laws of physics.. It does what it was design to do - and it does it very well.. and according to all the wonderful talks about the ISF - I am asking - how did the ISF fall short ? The ISF is "suppose" to be a lot faster than the JEEP but the ISF only have similar times with the JEEP..and the JEEP is not just a straight line monster - it has a respectable skid pad rating at 0.85g which is better than most sports sedans (isn't the M3's skidpad at 0.87g) so this is very very good for an SUV that weighs 4800 pounds..
Edit: the IS350's skid pad rating is 0.80g and the GS430 skid pad is 0.85g. So would this JEEP flip on a track like someone said? I think not - just because its an American product does not mean its inferior to a Japanese product.
Now - Continue discussion.
oh btw, it doesn't matter what the cars skidpad numbers are, if the Jeep tried to race an IS-F or other cars in its class it WOULD flip over.
Last edited by NINEZeRO; 11-03-07 at 12:26 PM.
#62
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well, why dont you include the RS4 and M3 in that discussion too, since they are not much faster if not even than the IS-F. I'm sure if Lexus, BMW and Audi only concern were straight line speed they could have made a much faster car. maybe you should try to understand things get a little more complicating when you try to balance speed, handling, comfort, luxury, appearance, etc which is all those cars have achieved to a certain extent.
oh btw, it doesn't matter what the cars skidpad numbers are, if the Jeep tried to race an IS-F or other cars in its class it WOULD flip over.
oh btw, it doesn't matter what the cars skidpad numbers are, if the Jeep tried to race an IS-F or other cars in its class it WOULD flip over.
Its funny - no matter how many times I try to explain things - you just don't get it.. in fact the ISF is slower than than M3 and RS4 counterpart, so why talk about it.. I was comparing an SUV to the ISF
Last edited by lobuxracer; 11-03-07 at 04:02 PM. Reason: Personal attack deleted
#63
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you were comparing the 0-60 and 1/4 times of the Jeep to the IS-F BECAUSE in your opinion the Jeep was just as fast. well since the IS-F is just as fast as the other cars, you should mention them to when you compare the Jeep to the IS-F BECAUSE of its speed.
Last edited by lobuxracer; 11-03-07 at 04:00 PM. Reason: Personal attack deleted
#64
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yes, its convienent to take the fastest time by a magazine known for exagerrated times.. Whenever the ISF can be consistently do the that time by every magazine- then I'll beileve it.. even lexus says it will do 4.6 sec and 13.0 et. with those stats.. ISF is slower.. to the other test of other cars who run consistent on their times with most mags.. How does most magazines get same relatively the same times for the M3 and RS4 while the ISF, the numbers are across the board - is it 4.2, 4.6, 4.7 or 4.8 which is it??.. Thats a big range.. I want to believe the lower number as much as you do or anyone else but the numbers or (facts) just don't add up -
Last edited by lobuxracer; 11-03-07 at 04:01 PM.
#65
Phat Monkey
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Some people - so ignorant
.. yes, its convienent to take the fastest time by a magazine known for exagerrated times.. Whenever the ISF can be consistently do the that time by every magazine- then I'll beileve it.. even lexus says it will do 4.6 sec and 13.0 et. with those stats.. ISF is slower.. to the other test of other cars who run consistent on their times with most mags.. How does most magazines get same relatively the same times for the M3 and RS4 while the ISF, the numbers are across the board - is it 4.2, 4.6, 4.7 or 4.8 which is it??.. Thats a big range.. I want to believe the lower number as much as you do or anyone else but the numbers or (facts) just don't add up -
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so do you expect the Jeep to win vs. the IS-F?...heh
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Last edited by lobuxracer; 11-03-07 at 04:01 PM.
#66
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Personal attacks are not permitted here. If I have to clean this thread again, it will be cleaned and locked. Make your points, but leave the insults out of it.
#67
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Torque does NOT move weight. Only horsepower moves weight. Engine torque is completely configurable through the gearbox. That's WHY we have a gearbox in the first place. READ THIS.
Obviously the Jeep is geared to be quick and take advantage of the engine torque, but it isn't the torque that makes the difference, it's the gearing. It probably has a pretty low top speed too.
Obviously the Jeep is geared to be quick and take advantage of the engine torque, but it isn't the torque that makes the difference, it's the gearing. It probably has a pretty low top speed too.
First, if torque is not what moves weight then why doesn't Cadillac use an 8,000 RPM, 400HP engine in the Escalade? It would certainly be more fuel-efficient. Could it be because 275 foot-pounds of torque would not sufficiently move all that weight around?
Second, The 237HP engine in the S2000 works well because the car is light. However, could you imagine how well it would perform stuffed into the Pilot? Even though the HP is near identical to the Pilot's V6, the big SUV would barely get out of its own way. Why? Because 162 foot pounds of torque is not enough to move all that weight around.
Third, The 160HP TC and the 160HP civic are good examples. Same HP, same weight. Why does the TC literally "smoke" the civic? Because the TC has gobs more torque to move the weight.
High RPM, low torque engines have their place but not in big heavy vehicles. If you applied this policy to trucks and SUV's they'd be rendered useless with no towing capacity, whatsoever.
I'm not trying to argue with you because you are in fact a very intelligent person and a well-respected member, here, but the article you posted does in fact state that torque is what moved the one-pound weight and that HP is calculated using torque data.
I'll stand by my first post and say that the SRT8 Jeep is a beast simply because of the monstrous torque figure.
#68
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I once worked with a 30,000 rpm motor that made so little torque I could pinch it with my fingers and stop it. It was installed in a million to one gearbox with a 16" long arm attached to it. There was NOTHING I could do to stop that arm when the motor ran. Torque means NOTHING without knowing the gears ratios between the source and the output.
The Jeep's torque from the engine is only slightly related to the torque at the wheel because there is an entire train of gears between the engine and the wheels.
Torque at the wheel rules. Torque at the engine is only important in how it relates to horsepower because I'm going to change the torque at the wheel with the geartrain. That's the part you are missing.
The Jeep's torque from the engine is only slightly related to the torque at the wheel because there is an entire train of gears between the engine and the wheels.
Torque at the wheel rules. Torque at the engine is only important in how it relates to horsepower because I'm going to change the torque at the wheel with the geartrain. That's the part you are missing.
#69
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so do you expect the Jeep to win vs. the IS-F?...heh
Plus what is the liter on that car...not too familiar with it...plus does it have the emissions of ULEVII?...also is the Jeep a gas guzzler?...not sure if it is...I think Lexus wanted to make the IS-F avoid the the gas guzzler tax...that is why it isn't a full blown out monster...I think they can probably make the engine even more crazy but decided not to...![Sad](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/sad.gif)
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No I don't want the JEEP to beat the ISF - I was referring to the stats on the two vehicles - and (for the third time) The JEEP and ISF have similiar stats in HP - though the ISF has an advantage but the Jeep can achieve almost the same test times weighing 1000 lbs more.. what gives? (thats my point)
#70
Phat Monkey
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No I don't want the JEEP to beat the ISF - I was referring to the stats on the two vehicles - and (for the third time) The JEEP and ISF have similiar stats in HP - though the ISF has an advantage but the Jeep can achieve almost the same test times weighing 1000 lbs more.. what gives? (thats my point)
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#71
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Agreed, Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep group have really put their ***** to the walls for the last couple of years and came out with some powerful vehicles. and Lexus is more of a refined luxury car company now with its race-inspired car but for whatever reason decided not to go "***** to wall" on it because maybe they want it to last 300K miles and be reliable as any other lexus model..which is good thing!
But to me, "racers" - real racers don't really care how long an engine last - they usually change engines after each race or a pre-determined mileage.
Wouldn't it be great if say, Lexus would build a Monstrous beast- not limiting the car to reliablity standards and give you the 3 engine exchanges part of the cars selling point or have packages for however many engines exchanges since, if you buy it to be a track car as the ISF was created for the track..
Just an idea.. Don't flame me..
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#72
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No I don't want the JEEP to beat the ISF - I was referring to the stats on the two vehicles - and (for the third time) The JEEP and ISF have similiar stats in HP - though the ISF has an advantage but the Jeep can achieve almost the same test times weighing 1000 lbs more.. what gives? (thats my point)
#74
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A comparison test of the IS-F vs M3 has not been done yet or if it has, I haven't seen it. Let's not jump to any conclusions before they have been compared side-by-side by the same driver under the same conditions.
#75
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I once worked with a 30,000 rpm motor that made so little torque I could pinch it with my fingers and stop it. It was installed in a million to one gearbox with a 16" long arm attached to it. There was NOTHING I could do to stop that arm when the motor ran. Torque means NOTHING without knowing the gears ratios between the source and the output.
The Jeep's torque from the engine is only slightly related to the torque at the wheel because there is an entire train of gears between the engine and the wheels.
Torque at the wheel rules. Torque at the engine is only important in how it relates to horsepower because I'm going to change the torque at the wheel with the geartrain. That's the part you are missing.
The Jeep's torque from the engine is only slightly related to the torque at the wheel because there is an entire train of gears between the engine and the wheels.
Torque at the wheel rules. Torque at the engine is only important in how it relates to horsepower because I'm going to change the torque at the wheel with the geartrain. That's the part you are missing.
Last edited by IS350jet; 11-05-07 at 06:34 PM.