Edmunds: IS-F vs. RS4
10-29-07, 09:53 PM
#32
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NINEZeRO ... What's wrong with you that nobody can say one bad thing about Lexus?? Why are you so insecure about people having a different view
? I didn't imply you were a lexus fanboy because, technically, I am one too.
You said:
"Its because their last review contradicts completely with their first review."
Did you even watch the video for the last review?? They didn't seem to like the car in that review, dude.
And, frankly, I thought the Automobile review was the worst of all for the IS-F ... so yes I have read all the reviews.
You said:
"and then you go on to say your money would be on the C63 when you really dont have anything to base that judgement on (yet)."
Yes I do have something to base it on: a Car and Driver review where it gets to 60 in 3.9 seconds making it the fastest production sedan in the world.
Grow up Dude!
? I didn't imply you were a lexus fanboy because, technically, I am one too.You said:
"Its because their last review contradicts completely with their first review."
Did you even watch the video for the last review?? They didn't seem to like the car in that review, dude.
And, frankly, I thought the Automobile review was the worst of all for the IS-F ... so yes I have read all the reviews.
You said:
"and then you go on to say your money would be on the C63 when you really dont have anything to base that judgement on (yet)."
Yes I do have something to base it on: a Car and Driver review where it gets to 60 in 3.9 seconds making it the fastest production sedan in the world.
Grow up Dude!
Last edited by LexElite; 10-29-07 at 11:05 PM.
10-30-07, 12:12 AM
#33
i would still get the IS-F over the others...I dunno...I used to have drive bmw's and now...i dunno...I like features that lexus has that is standard on their cars compared to the really expensive options on bmw and benz...plus man...this care has ULEV II rating...I don't think the other cars have that...crazy how lexus/toyota managed to make the engine into something that is not too bad for the environment...compared to the M3, C63, or RS4...all of them have gas guzzler tax....
10-30-07, 06:04 AM
#34
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NINEZeRO ... What's wrong with you that nobody can say one bad thing about Lexus?? Why are you so insecure about people having a different view? I didn't imply you were a lexus fanboy because, technically, I am one too.
You said:
"Its because their last review contradicts completely with their first review."
Did you even watch the video for the last review?? They didn't seem to like the car in that review, dude.
And, frankly, I thought the Automobile review was the worst of all for the IS-F ... so yes I have read all the reviews.
You said:
"and then you go on to say your money would be on the C63 when you really dont have anything to base that judgement on (yet)."
Yes I do have something to base it on: a Car and Driver review where it gets to 60 in 3.9 seconds making it the fastest production sedan in the world.
Grow up Dude!
? I didn't imply you were a lexus fanboy because, technically, I am one too.You said:
"Its because their last review contradicts completely with their first review."
Did you even watch the video for the last review?? They didn't seem to like the car in that review, dude.
And, frankly, I thought the Automobile review was the worst of all for the IS-F ... so yes I have read all the reviews.
You said:
"and then you go on to say your money would be on the C63 when you really dont have anything to base that judgement on (yet)."
Yes I do have something to base it on: a Car and Driver review where it gets to 60 in 3.9 seconds making it the fastest production sedan in the world.
Grow up Dude!
no you dont have anything to base your judgement on the IS-F vs the C63 yet, because they haven't been put head to head.
dont act like 0-60 and 1/4 mi are the most important thing for someone who was looking at a luxury sport vehicle.
10-30-07, 06:36 AM
#35
Pole Position
It is far easier to build a fast 0-60 car that still rides like someone would expect of a luxury car than it is to build a car that handles like snot and provides a luxurious ride. See MB S65 AMG and Audi RS6 as examples of the former and... well pretty much nothing as examples of the latter (The last M3 typically got blasted for the harsh ride).
Besides most people don't have the skills to be exploring the handling limits of the cars whereas most know how to floor an accelerator.
10-30-07, 07:56 AM
#36
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Let me challenge you on this one. Why not?!
It is far easier to build a fast 0-60 car that still rides like someone would expect of a luxury car than it is to build a car that handles like snot and provides a luxurious ride. See MB S65 AMG and Audi RS6 as examples of the former and... well pretty much nothing as examples of the latter (The last M3 typically got blasted for the harsh ride).
Besides most people don't have the skills to be exploring the handling limits of the cars whereas most know how to floor an accelerator.
It is far easier to build a fast 0-60 car that still rides like someone would expect of a luxury car than it is to build a car that handles like snot and provides a luxurious ride. See MB S65 AMG and Audi RS6 as examples of the former and... well pretty much nothing as examples of the latter (The last M3 typically got blasted for the harsh ride).
Besides most people don't have the skills to be exploring the handling limits of the cars whereas most know how to floor an accelerator.
just because people dont have the skills to test a cars handling limit doesn't mean they dont want a car with greater overall performance.
10-30-07, 08:57 AM
#37
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Good grief ... can anyone in here think rationally? The IS-F MIGHT not be better than it's German competition!!! Get over it. The Germans invented the sport sedan and they are pretty good at making them ... they always have been. Other boards at least have somewhat intellectual debates but on this board people shout down any dissenting voice and cry: "How could you say that about lexus." What if Edmunds is right? Nobody on this board can say that they've done an all day comparison test with an IS-F against the competition on a racetrack. I'm not going to stop visiting Edmunds because they didn't give my favorite car a good review?! I like Lexus but I don't think that they are the best values anymore like they used to be and frankly I would take a Merc C63 over the IS-F if it was my money.
I'm sure I will get shouted down and then this post will be deleted but that's my .02.
I'm sure I will get shouted down and then this post will be deleted but that's my .02.
"Wow! The Lexus engineers have really worked their magic with this 8-speed torque converter based automatic, it truly raises the state of the art. Unfortunately for the IS-F it pales in comparison to the the RS4 clutch setup and true manual in every tangible way, save absolute shifting speed, such that, to a man, everyone who drove these cars preferred the Audi set up for a high end sports sedan application such as this."
That is the gist of what they said and not inconsistent. I think the transmission is one of the reasons the IS-F got the nod on the track.
10-30-07, 09:22 AM
#38
I think Edmunds editors think their d##ks are couples inches longer with the manual RS4 on the street while looking at those pretty ladies in the convertibles. However, on the track, the fast shifting Lexus made them forget that they even have d##ks.
That's why they prefer the IS-F for the track but RS4 for the street IMO.
That's why they prefer the IS-F for the track but RS4 for the street IMO.
10-30-07, 12:11 PM
#39
RS4 >>> IS-F end of story
so its easier to build a car with speed and ride of teh S65 or RS6 then just a S-series or A6, right...... so thats why those performance cars are considered engineering marvels......right.....
just because people dont have the skills to test a cars handling limit doesn't mean they dont want a car with greater overall performance.
just because people dont have the skills to test a cars handling limit doesn't mean they dont want a car with greater overall performance.
10-30-07, 01:09 PM
#41
Pole Position
so its easier to build a car with speed and ride of teh S65 or RS6 then just a S-series or A6, right...... so thats why those performance cars are considered engineering marvels......right.....
just because people dont have the skills to test a cars handling limit doesn't mean they dont want a car with greater overall performance.
just because people dont have the skills to test a cars handling limit doesn't mean they dont want a car with greater overall performance.
dont act like 0-60 and 1/4 mi are the most important thing for someone who was looking at a luxury sport vehicle.
My $0.02
10-30-07, 01:55 PM
#42
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http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...cleId=115689#2
Look at this review and tell me where they got the supposed numbers for the RS4 Vs the IS-F. Why did they have to up the ante to try to make the RS4 shine more than the IS-F. You guys tell me. Take a look.http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...cleId=115689#2. Also look at the comparison between the 2007 and RS4. Those guys over at edmunds. Make up your minds what the correct numbers are for the RS4.
Look at this review and tell me where they got the supposed numbers for the RS4 Vs the IS-F. Why did they have to up the ante to try to make the RS4 shine more than the IS-F. You guys tell me. Take a look.http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...cleId=115689#2. Also look at the comparison between the 2007 and RS4. Those guys over at edmunds. Make up your minds what the correct numbers are for the RS4.
10-30-07, 03:04 PM
#43
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Edmunds, like Consumer Reports, consistently gets poor performance numbers and that is fine. To me it is about consistency and I suspect that Edmunds performance numbers are much more readily reproduced than the fantasy numbers that the car rags churn out for the manufacturers ad copy.
Allow me to add, that all the obsession about performance numbers, especially published numbers, is more than a bit silly. Anyone who buys the IS-F because they saw, and believed, a some magazines published 4.2 second time to sixty mph is just as foolish as a person who passes on the car because a websites 4.8 second one is "just too slow".
As you say, styling is subjective and taking a few potshots at the IS-F's perceived excesses may be rude, but I would rather they articulate a position with humor and a modicum of writing flair with comment, such as, the fanboy/Beluga whale one then lapse into cliches like "fugly" or "butt ugly" or similar.
I would have said that:
"the raised hood, dictated by the V-8 engine installation, compromises the lines of the original IS design in a way that an unbiased observer might find bulbous if not downright ugly."
Which I think gives a fair appraisal of the situation, but may still offend the "fanboys".
Moreover, the gaudiness of the the faux-quad exhaust speaks for itself. This IS-F has enough genuine "excitement", both visually and in performance, that it doesn't need the fake foursome as a parting shot any more than a lily needs to be painted white.
Allow me to add, that all the obsession about performance numbers, especially published numbers, is more than a bit silly. Anyone who buys the IS-F because they saw, and believed, a some magazines published 4.2 second time to sixty mph is just as foolish as a person who passes on the car because a websites 4.8 second one is "just too slow".
As you say, styling is subjective and taking a few potshots at the IS-F's perceived excesses may be rude, but I would rather they articulate a position with humor and a modicum of writing flair with comment, such as, the fanboy/Beluga whale one then lapse into cliches like "fugly" or "butt ugly" or similar.
I would have said that:
"the raised hood, dictated by the V-8 engine installation, compromises the lines of the original IS design in a way that an unbiased observer might find bulbous if not downright ugly."
Which I think gives a fair appraisal of the situation, but may still offend the "fanboys".
Moreover, the gaudiness of the the faux-quad exhaust speaks for itself. This IS-F has enough genuine "excitement", both visually and in performance, that it doesn't need the fake foursome as a parting shot any more than a lily needs to be painted white.
What's important, is that you like the car, the way it drives and feels, and the materials and shapes.
I'm wondering how much planning Lexus did for the IS-F (for change to the hood, etc.). It seems the German auto makers swap in larger engines easily as they seem to have planned that all along, while I'm not quite seeing that in Lexus.
