saab9-3

First off, I apologize for the dramatic title. I am not a Lexus hater. Quite to the contrary, I have been recognized by the corporation as Lexus' #1 individual customer (I rarely post, but those who have seen my pics/posts, or who attended last year's dealership owners' meeting know I am not just blowing smoke). However, in the light of the new M3 pricing, I have to pose the question: why should I buy an IS-F? Yes, the IS-F will be a terrific car- very comfortable, very fast, very luxurious, extremely reliable, and hold its value quite well. But the M3 will most likely surpass the IS-F in most categories for a lower base price (unless I am mistaken).

Did Lexus drop the ball on pricing? Or will they be able to differentiate the IS-F enough from the M3 to not have to compete directly? Again, I am not a BMW lover at all. I have had ten times as many Lexi as BMW's, but maybe it is time to change that ratio...

Any thoughts?

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

wait for an options list for the M3 to get released, who knows what they will nickel and dime you for. I doubt the base price includes the DCT transmission either, dont forget a gas guzzler tax that has a high chance of appearing on the M3

ToothDoc

I honestly think Lexus is trying to make too much money off the IS-F. For one, they lost me. I REFUSE to pay 15K more for the same car with 100 more HP, bigger brakes, tire and wheel package, and better tranny and nothing else. Why is the IS350 only 3K more than IS250 with 100 more HP and bigger brakes? Are the tires, wheels, and tranny really 12K more or are they simply banking on rich guys paying a premium to be more exclusive? I'd rather jump ship to CTS-V and for about the same get 250+ hp instead of 100 more for 15K more.

gengar

Simple answer: Because it's a Lexus.

If you are one of Lexus' top customers, then you know why you buy Lexus. I can't find anything more to say, honestly.

As for me, it can get very complex. Briefly, I have entertained buying a BMW for a long time. I was thinking about getting an E60 M5 when BMW made it clear they were developing their own version of DSG, and when I heard they were making a lighter-weight V8 to replace the M3 I6, I was pretty much sold. But between the IS F coming to fruition and my roommate's lousy experience with both local BMW dealerships, both in with his lemon-y 328i and again with service for his 335i, I'm back to the IS F.

My personal opinion is that in this buyer's segment, the vast majority of buyers are not going to look at the price as a primary or even defining factor. My roommate is a BMWhead and would never, ever consider a Lexus, so the IS F could be 40k and he wouldn't buy one. I consider both, yet look at other factors - with price being well down the list - in my comparison.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

dont forget the extra 500 lbs of curb weight it has over an IS-F

encore888

Hi saab9-3, Welcome Back!!! How are you doing these days? Anyhow, you clearly have the money to do whatever you want. In the end, for this class of vehicle, it depends on what you would prioritize. I think that like others have said, when the options and other details, etc. are included, the M3 may be more expensive...anyhow they are in a similar ballpark, so the question then comes to whether you would like to pay a bit more or less...it's all up to you.

In response to a comparison made, I would mention also IMHO the leap between the IS 250/350 and IS-F warrants a larger increase than that of the IS 250 to 350, not to mention the other differences but also the different suspension, the body style differences, the interior trim, and overall package experience...as reviews have stated the IS-F is definitely in a different category than the regular IS, just as the M3/RS4/C63 AMG etc. are in a different category than their more common relatives.

Anyhow, thanks for stopping by again, I liked your big garage thread, very fascinating, please feel free to share more details, interesting stories, opinions, or whatever...

Celsius

iTrader: (1)

You are 100% correct!
- If you need all the amenities, buy the Lexus!
- If you just want to get a good sports sedan and are only concerned about performance, buy the BMW!

I agree though, I think Lexus is getting TOO COCKY with pricing! But, the IS-F will sell because it will be limited from what I've been told.

STIG

I think Lexus got it all wrong with the pricing. They should have at least waited until how BMW priced their M3.

cliffud

iTrader: (3)

GS400 owners paid a 10k premium over GS300 owners back in the day and only got 80 more HP, everything else was the same...

You may refuse to pay 15k more but there will be some out there who just don't care and will see it as a bargain because they get all that stuff which is still covered under warranty.

MR_F1

Seriously, I don't think anybody willing to pay this much for an entry level sized sport sedan will nickel and dime about the $1500 price difference. Even then, I'm willing to be that the base Lexus will be better equipped and have to pay a smaller consumption (gas-guzzler) tax.

I've said before that I find the IS-F to be quite competent and right on the mark where they should be. Offering a car on par with the competition with excellent quality and hopefully the usually high(-er than it's competitors) standard of reliability. Lexus is here, and I don't think that they should have to sell their vehicles any cheaper than what they are worth because they are the new kid on the block. For the work that went into this car, the price of the other competitors in the market and it's exclusivity, I see nothing wrong with the price. I also think BMW did the smart thing and waited until Lexus released a price so the could advertise a cheaper price....they can afford to with how much they overcharge for their other 3 series and what they will overcharge for the soon to arrive 1 series.

As for why should you buy one, if you have to ask the question, then simply don't. IMHO these cars are 85% emotional or image type purchases. From what we have seen, from a performance point of view the IS-f is right their with its competition. I don't give a damn that it doesn't have a stick. So for that other 85% of consideration, looking at what calls to me, I'd never consider an E9x BMW. The IS-F would probably not be at the top of my list, but I definitely like it a hell of a lot more than the BMW. Now were the new power/drive train in an E46 chassis then the IS-F would not even be on the radar.

TwiBlueG35

I have the same question.

IS-F vs. M3 sedan: I would pick M3 sedan
IS-F vs. GT-R: I would pick GT-R
IS-F vs. IS350: I would pick IS350


Why would I buy IS-F anyway?

MR_F1

your point? that's YOUR choice.

IS-F Cali

Why by an ISF? Exclusivity!! If you're already a "Lexus guy", it should be a no-brainer to want the company's first factory tuned 4-door hot rod that rivals the M3.

I grew up in a family that were MBZ loyalists for decades. Pops initiated me into the club at 16 with a used 190 2.3-16v because I wanted a stick and that was the only stick MBZ had to offer. I'd never heard the end of it from my friends telling me, "you should have got an M3". Years later, in 1999, I got a new C43 and was stoked that my guys finally made a car that could rival the M3. What's funny is the same group of friends still clowned me with "you should have got an M3". The C43 is my favorite MBZ car I've ever owned and the only MBZ car I own to this day, since becoming a Lexus guy a couple years ago.

The IS-F reminds me of the C43 in that both cars represent the first time their respective companies decided to drop a V8 in their smallest sedan, producing a factory tuned hot-rod sedan that competes with the M3.

Setting price and performance aside, I think the IS-F beats the new M3 and C63 in appearance. I always thought the 2ISs were a little narrow in the rear. The lowered stance, wider rear fender and hood bulge make the IS-F Badass! The exclusivity, as mentioned, in the "F" badge should intice you as well!

Everyone believes that enthusiasts SHOULD buy an M3. I believe loyalists should buy M3 killers. lol, Good luck with your decision.

llamaboiz

Haha everyone has very good reasons... BUT mine are simpler. If i buy a new car i'll buy Japanese, whats the best Japanese brand, Lexus. I'm also of Japanese decent so its racial for me. Buy Japanese because I'm Japanese. Pretty simple way of thinking but hey, it works for me and I just love my is350.

One more point:

I'd rather be alittle bit slower driving past the little bit faster car thats on the side of the road waiting for the service tech. I see that alot from a certian Barvarian motor company...

joshmtx

I think time will show that the Lexus is a better overall value. The IS F will be faster with more torque and that awesome transmission. The best part for all of us is that now we have real competition out there. Lexus is once again helping to make the whole industry better through competition.

I think BMW is scared. They waited until Lexus announced pricing and then undercut IS F pricing with a lesser value offering. Buyers in this segment won't be fooled. Real world ownership costs will prevail.

For you Saab9-3 I don't understand it if you are not already on the list for an IS F Neiman Marcus SBS or at least a standard IS F. Go buy the one on ebay for superior exclusivity! The M3 will not surpass the IS F in most categories. We already know the Lexus has more power, more torque, better transmission, better reliability (hello Lexus V8 duh,) better optional sound (Mark Levinson,) highest track speed 170 mph, track worthy performance, and Lexus service. Is someone really going to buy an M3 just to save a little cash to get a lesser value? If someone buys an M3 they will buy it just because it is an M3, period. The Lexus IS F is the better value.