isf m3 isf m3 isf...ahhhhhh help me!
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ok, feel better now.
if anyone has any input would love to hear why pick isf over m3.
m3 handling much better but...still can't help but like the isf. damn this sucks (great problem to have)
if anyone has any input would love to hear why pick isf over m3.
m3 handling much better but...still can't help but like the isf. damn this sucks (great problem to have)
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I'm also in the same boat and this is what I posted this weekend on another forum. This is strictly from an "everyday car" perspective :
Also something to note is that there are deals to be had on M3 6MT sedans...buyers are holding out for DCT and/or coupes.
Edit: I was wrong about the M's tires...they are NOT runflats...the car comes with M-Mobility kit.
It was a very good end of the week for me. I lucked out and scored an M3 test drive in addition to the IS-F. Disclaimer: I will not be discussing "handling at the limit" or "stability at triple-digit speeds". ![Stick Out Tongue](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
First the F:
Fit, finish, materials all very nice. Everything felt tight and very solid. The seats are a little snug in the side bolsters (I'm 5'11" 200 lbs) but supportive. The interior space is tight but I knew that from looking at the IS350. As far as the drive, it is a whole other animal than the 350. The V8 rumble is impressive although somewhat muted in the very quiet interior. Acceleration is immediate and effortless. I wasn't able to floor it for any extended period because the car reaches ludicrous speeds far too quickly. and that brings up a point: the 8-speed auto is definitely overkill. The engine has plenty of grunt at low revs and IMHO would perform as well paired with a 6-speed as long as it has a tall highway gear. As it is, in full auto mode there's just too much shifting going on for such a tractable engine. Manual mode gives the driver *almost* complete control but there are just too many ratios...I was flipping back and forth between 4th, 5th, and 6th trying to figure out the optimum ratio but it didn't seem to matter much. Enough about that. The ride is firm yet compliant. I intentionally took it over some rougher surfaces and did not get beat up at all. Reviewers complaining of "harshness" must have some sensitive *****. The brakes are stupendous; the pedal is firm, easy to modulate and the F stops right now when you apply full pressure. I didn't perform any road course hooning but I'm sure the car's abilities far exceed mine.
Daily Driver Pros: Power delivery, engine note, brakes, fit & finish, historical Lexus reliability.
Daily Driver Cons: Transmission (solid but too many ratios), interior space.
Subjective Daily Driver Score: 9.5/10
After the IS-F test drive I hopped over to the BMW dealer and they were more than happy to pull out an M3 6MT sedan (they had no coupes on the lot). I don't really like the lines of the sedan version compared to the IS-F...if I bought the M3 it would have to be the coupe. Anyway, supposedly they drive similarly so we took it for a spin. Interior-wise it was all BMW...well finished but a different environment than the IS. Less blingy, perhaps. I preferred BMW's steering wheel feel over the F. The seats were less aggressively bolstered which might be an issue for track drivers. Also, for those comparing practicality, the back seat appeared to have more leg room than the Lexus. As far as the drive, I was pleasantly surprised by the around-town docility which was aided by turning the "Power" button off. Even with the button on the car was easy to tool around in with 100% predictable clutch takeup and drama-free power delivery at low rpms. The clutch is shockingly light for a 400 hp automobile and little hindrance to stop-and-go driving. The shifter was somewhat notchy (actually a little grindy on quick shifts at lower rpm) and has a rubbery feel but no problems with selecting the right gear and staying there. The engine was surprising compared to what I had read about it. My impression of a "screamer" V8 with no low-end grunt was quickly dispelled. Although it generates less torque than the F, the torque builds early and stays flat across the rev range. I was not able the rev the car to 8400 but let me say that 6000 rpm is damn impressive. The brakes didn't "wow" me like the F although stops were quick and solid. The ride was firm and I ran over the same rough surfaces that I traveled previously...again compliance over bumps was acceptable with no undue harshness even on run-flats.
No hooning on this drive either.
Daily Driver Pros: Power delivery (again surprising), engine note, fit & finish (all different but excellent), clutch, interior space (even with the coupe).
Daily Driver Cons: Shifter action, arguably less reliable.
Subjective daily driver score: 9/10
Despite the slight nod to the IS-F this is not a done deal. I just thought I would share my impressions of both cars under normal street driving conditions. Now if I can just wangle a C63 test...
![Stick Out Tongue](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
First the F:
Fit, finish, materials all very nice. Everything felt tight and very solid. The seats are a little snug in the side bolsters (I'm 5'11" 200 lbs) but supportive. The interior space is tight but I knew that from looking at the IS350. As far as the drive, it is a whole other animal than the 350. The V8 rumble is impressive although somewhat muted in the very quiet interior. Acceleration is immediate and effortless. I wasn't able to floor it for any extended period because the car reaches ludicrous speeds far too quickly. and that brings up a point: the 8-speed auto is definitely overkill. The engine has plenty of grunt at low revs and IMHO would perform as well paired with a 6-speed as long as it has a tall highway gear. As it is, in full auto mode there's just too much shifting going on for such a tractable engine. Manual mode gives the driver *almost* complete control but there are just too many ratios...I was flipping back and forth between 4th, 5th, and 6th trying to figure out the optimum ratio but it didn't seem to matter much. Enough about that. The ride is firm yet compliant. I intentionally took it over some rougher surfaces and did not get beat up at all. Reviewers complaining of "harshness" must have some sensitive *****. The brakes are stupendous; the pedal is firm, easy to modulate and the F stops right now when you apply full pressure. I didn't perform any road course hooning but I'm sure the car's abilities far exceed mine.
Daily Driver Pros: Power delivery, engine note, brakes, fit & finish, historical Lexus reliability.
Daily Driver Cons: Transmission (solid but too many ratios), interior space.
Subjective Daily Driver Score: 9.5/10
After the IS-F test drive I hopped over to the BMW dealer and they were more than happy to pull out an M3 6MT sedan (they had no coupes on the lot). I don't really like the lines of the sedan version compared to the IS-F...if I bought the M3 it would have to be the coupe. Anyway, supposedly they drive similarly so we took it for a spin. Interior-wise it was all BMW...well finished but a different environment than the IS. Less blingy, perhaps. I preferred BMW's steering wheel feel over the F. The seats were less aggressively bolstered which might be an issue for track drivers. Also, for those comparing practicality, the back seat appeared to have more leg room than the Lexus. As far as the drive, I was pleasantly surprised by the around-town docility which was aided by turning the "Power" button off. Even with the button on the car was easy to tool around in with 100% predictable clutch takeup and drama-free power delivery at low rpms. The clutch is shockingly light for a 400 hp automobile and little hindrance to stop-and-go driving. The shifter was somewhat notchy (actually a little grindy on quick shifts at lower rpm) and has a rubbery feel but no problems with selecting the right gear and staying there. The engine was surprising compared to what I had read about it. My impression of a "screamer" V8 with no low-end grunt was quickly dispelled. Although it generates less torque than the F, the torque builds early and stays flat across the rev range. I was not able the rev the car to 8400 but let me say that 6000 rpm is damn impressive. The brakes didn't "wow" me like the F although stops were quick and solid. The ride was firm and I ran over the same rough surfaces that I traveled previously...again compliance over bumps was acceptable with no undue harshness even on run-flats.
No hooning on this drive either.
Daily Driver Pros: Power delivery (again surprising), engine note, fit & finish (all different but excellent), clutch, interior space (even with the coupe).
Daily Driver Cons: Shifter action, arguably less reliable.
Subjective daily driver score: 9/10
Despite the slight nod to the IS-F this is not a done deal. I just thought I would share my impressions of both cars under normal street driving conditions. Now if I can just wangle a C63 test...
Edit: I was wrong about the M's tires...they are NOT runflats...the car comes with M-Mobility kit.
Last edited by nuttybar08; 06-30-08 at 10:59 AM.
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#10
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honestly... everyone always tells me how cool my is-f is... i'd take it over the M3 anyday... people always looking at it at a stop light.. plus its more practical.. and driver friendly
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ok, please don't take this as me being an @ss it's really not meant to be. i bumped into a bunch of 'fast n furious" kids tooling around in a is350. I figured lexus is a little more ricer than bmw stereotypically so i asked them what they would do.
to my surprise they def prefered the m3. for some reason they also talked up audi.
btw. it's both dealers are discounting due to 08 models being replaced by 09, economy etc etc. could get about 3k off either.
re: c63. these are not going to be discounted I don't think. there don't seem to be many around literally dealer got 1 so far, poof it was gone.
was hoping maybe the lexus got 25+ miles per gal vs bmw 12 that might be enough to rationalize it. ugh!
thanks for input. great stuff.
to my surprise they def prefered the m3. for some reason they also talked up audi.
btw. it's both dealers are discounting due to 08 models being replaced by 09, economy etc etc. could get about 3k off either.
re: c63. these are not going to be discounted I don't think. there don't seem to be many around literally dealer got 1 so far, poof it was gone.
was hoping maybe the lexus got 25+ miles per gal vs bmw 12 that might be enough to rationalize it. ugh!
thanks for input. great stuff.
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my friend just bought 535xi last month,
he went back to dealer last week for blown exterior lights.
it's different car...but can't ignore.
it helped me to choose isf over m3.
still. m3 looks nice..(coupe only)
he went back to dealer last week for blown exterior lights.
it's different car...but can't ignore.
it helped me to choose isf over m3.
still. m3 looks nice..(coupe only)
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rofl
to be realistic, bmw are unreliable.
to be realistic, bmw are unreliable.