Bad Night Photos Of Swift Intake
08-25-08, 02:57 PM
#31
nutty - in a sense, you are absolutely correct. Ideally, he would dyno stock, then add the mods and dyno in the same or similar conditions. I'm just curious what this mod makes on a dynojet using SAE cf.
Peter
Peter
08-25-08, 03:24 PM
#33
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Ok I Am Going To Research Stand Alones
Well said. Here are my personal stories. I had a 2005 911 Carrera (not S). Best stock quarter mile was 12.9. Then I added headers, exhaust, drop in filter, and GIAC software. I should be kicking butt right? Wrong. I lost a little torque on the lower end and gained power after 3000 rpm. Quarter mile time dropped by a whopping 0.18 seconds.
Now I have a 997 TT. It also has exhaust, drop-in filter and a GIAC flash raising the HP from 480 to 550 at the crank. Stock quarter mile averages around 11.7. Most folks with my mods run 11.4. 0.3 gain with an additional 80 crank HP. If I had the Acura's software alone, I should be able to do the quarter mile in 9.xx seconds
It just does not add up.
Now I have a 997 TT. It also has exhaust, drop-in filter and a GIAC flash raising the HP from 480 to 550 at the crank. Stock quarter mile averages around 11.7. Most folks with my mods run 11.4. 0.3 gain with an additional 80 crank HP. If I had the Acura's software alone, I should be able to do the quarter mile in 9.xx seconds
It just does not add up.Let me do the research and post what I find out
08-25-08, 03:45 PM
#34
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buddy just stick to ur doctoring please... u have no idea wut ur talking bout the most hp a intake will get u is probably 5-8... that is way to small to feel a difference... its all in ur head... dont get to cocky wit betting and all that it will come back and bite u in the ***... and "I was just trying to educate him" words from you... im sure lobuxracer is just trying to educate u too 
so dont be so stuck up and just take it in for wut it is 
so dont be so stuck up and just take it in for wut it is God I love how people tell me it is all in my head. Then tell me why hundreds of thousands of people buy custom intakes? Is it because of the look? OK I AM GOING TO BE LOUD AND CLEAR ABOUT MY EXPERIENCE... AS I MENTIONED BEFORE I CAN'T TELL YOU ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCES JUST MINE. I NOTICE A DIFFERENCE WITH THE NEW SRT INTAKE AND IT IS NOT IN MY HEAD.
as far as you quoting me.. why don't you quote the entire part where you will see what I was educating him on "didn't read what I wrote close enough and he was trying to educate me on anatomy and physics. I was just trying to educate him that I am very well versed when it comes to those areas." and that was, if you didn't figure it out in reference to the human body not a car! If you take the time to read what a wrote in the other posts you will see I said things like "My only suggestion is ask around and do research on your own. There is a lot of people who act like they know and they don't." and"I also talk to the people in my car club to learn about their experiences with performance parts. But you won't ever see me tell someone that I know everything there is to know about cars. I know a very little bit and that comes from knowing a lot of people at car dealers, car clubs, and from reading books." So take it as me being stuck up or you can take it for people not completely reading what I wrote or not understanding what I wrote or people using parts of a quote and not the entire piece. I am up for suggestions, but when people are arguing with me because they didn't understand what I said which was exactly what he said then I am going to SPEAK UP. AGAIN LET ME SAY THAT I KNOW VERY LITTLE ABOUT CARS. I NEVER TELL ANYONE TO TAKE MY WORD AS GODS WORD. I TELL THEM I DON'T KNOW DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH AND ASK AROUND. TSO TAKE IT HOW EVVER YOU WANT CAUSE I KNOW ONLY WHAT I EXPERIENCE. THANKS
08-25-08, 06:11 PM
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I'm not trying to pick on ya'. Millions of people buy all kinds of stuff that just don't work, but they believe in it. Back in the day, when I knew of people who would race for money..., there were really no dynos to go to anywhere. That's kind of a new thing. Dyno was something that really hot-shot engine shops had and almost nobody had a chassis dyno.
One of the things I learned from the old-farts (side hint: beware old men in hotrods, they have more money than you), is to establish baselines and do record keeping when changing stuff. When all the other guys were out buying the biggest Holley double pumper carbs they could get their hands on, I read up on the engineering and figured out that I could actually make the car a LOT faster using a much smaller CFM vacuum secondary carburetor. Not only that, but Holley sold the tech data books and the kit of springs and all kinds of other parts to tune the carb to your application. It took a while, but with a stopwatch and some pages of notebook paper, I was able to truly tune that bad boy. No dyno required. Just some basic scientific principle.
Also way back in the dinosaur days, everybody figured that "true dual exhaust" all the way to the tail pipe was the best. Lots of guys spent money on exhaust system to make them "true dual" and headers and so on. But it turns out that it is far more effective to have an x-pipe in most V8 street applications and those "racing headers" and big bumpy cams don't always work out on the street either.
True rodding is science, trial and error, experimentation and data collection.
But tons of guys buy wheels and go-fast parts like chicks buy shoes and jewelry. It's about flash and ego and consumerism.
I gave it up a long time ago, but I can't tell you how many 'bad-ss' Camaros that rumbled at redlights that I took $$$ off of with my poor little sleepers. The funniest of all was a wildly setup supercharged early-70's 'vette. It had a big blower and mikuni carbs sticking up through the hood. I thought my goose was cooked, but low-and-behold, my little 302 with a cheap 4bbl carb took him to the cleaners too.
The one guy that used to frustrate the heck out of me was the dentist and his Grand National. I gave up street racing a long, long time ago, it's just too damn dangerous. I used to run on bracket nights at the drag strip. Got some great times, but man, the GN was just so damn consistent. He ran within a few hundredths of his dial in everytime. I could beat him speedwise, but consistency was all his.
On the ISF engine, given its very high compression ratio, mucking with the MAF sensor to the ECU is playing with fire. It's already a fine tuned machine. You might get a few hundredths out of it that way. The rest of the intake is just making noise. No gains from it at all, I guarantee you that. Putting a big dose of Jenny Craig on the car though will get you a whole lot more gains and there are lots of opportunities there and it won't cost you anything but sweat to do it.
Look at this way:
ISF Curb weight/hp = 3800/416=9.1 lbs/hp.
Lose 200lbs worth of stuff 3600/416=8.6 lbs/hp.
That's the same as increasing the horsepower to 442hp. No bolt on intake is going to provide 25hp out of the engine either.
Get rid of all the underhood and under-body plastic trim and covers, pull out the sound proofing, lose the spare and tools, the speakers and amps and so on, lose the big brakes and wheels (unsprung weight is huge gains) and you will in reality, make the car a whole lot quicker.
One of the things I learned from the old-farts (side hint: beware old men in hotrods, they have more money than you), is to establish baselines and do record keeping when changing stuff. When all the other guys were out buying the biggest Holley double pumper carbs they could get their hands on, I read up on the engineering and figured out that I could actually make the car a LOT faster using a much smaller CFM vacuum secondary carburetor. Not only that, but Holley sold the tech data books and the kit of springs and all kinds of other parts to tune the carb to your application. It took a while, but with a stopwatch and some pages of notebook paper, I was able to truly tune that bad boy. No dyno required. Just some basic scientific principle.
Also way back in the dinosaur days, everybody figured that "true dual exhaust" all the way to the tail pipe was the best. Lots of guys spent money on exhaust system to make them "true dual" and headers and so on. But it turns out that it is far more effective to have an x-pipe in most V8 street applications and those "racing headers" and big bumpy cams don't always work out on the street either.
True rodding is science, trial and error, experimentation and data collection.
But tons of guys buy wheels and go-fast parts like chicks buy shoes and jewelry. It's about flash and ego and consumerism.
I gave it up a long time ago, but I can't tell you how many 'bad-ss' Camaros that rumbled at redlights that I took $$$ off of with my poor little sleepers. The funniest of all was a wildly setup supercharged early-70's 'vette. It had a big blower and mikuni carbs sticking up through the hood. I thought my goose was cooked, but low-and-behold, my little 302 with a cheap 4bbl carb took him to the cleaners too.
The one guy that used to frustrate the heck out of me was the dentist and his Grand National. I gave up street racing a long, long time ago, it's just too damn dangerous. I used to run on bracket nights at the drag strip. Got some great times, but man, the GN was just so damn consistent. He ran within a few hundredths of his dial in everytime. I could beat him speedwise, but consistency was all his.
On the ISF engine, given its very high compression ratio, mucking with the MAF sensor to the ECU is playing with fire. It's already a fine tuned machine. You might get a few hundredths out of it that way. The rest of the intake is just making noise. No gains from it at all, I guarantee you that. Putting a big dose of Jenny Craig on the car though will get you a whole lot more gains and there are lots of opportunities there and it won't cost you anything but sweat to do it.
Look at this way:
ISF Curb weight/hp = 3800/416=9.1 lbs/hp.
Lose 200lbs worth of stuff 3600/416=8.6 lbs/hp.
That's the same as increasing the horsepower to 442hp. No bolt on intake is going to provide 25hp out of the engine either.
Get rid of all the underhood and under-body plastic trim and covers, pull out the sound proofing, lose the spare and tools, the speakers and amps and so on, lose the big brakes and wheels (unsprung weight is huge gains) and you will in reality, make the car a whole lot quicker.
Last edited by larrysb; 08-25-08 at 06:16 PM.
08-25-08, 07:44 PM
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I Will Head Your Advice Larry
I'm not trying to pick on ya'. Millions of people buy all kinds of stuff that just don't work, but they believe in it. Back in the day, when I knew of people who would race for money..., there were really no dynos to go to anywhere. That's kind of a new thing. Dyno was something that really hot-shot engine shops had and almost nobody had a chassis dyno.
One of the things I learned from the old-farts (side hint: beware old men in hotrods, they have more money than you), is to establish baselines and do record keeping when changing stuff. When all the other guys were out buying the biggest Holley double pumper carbs they could get their hands on, I read up on the engineering and figured out that I could actually make the car a LOT faster using a much smaller CFM vacuum secondary carburetor. Not only that, but Holley sold the tech data books and the kit of springs and all kinds of other parts to tune the carb to your application. It took a while, but with a stopwatch and some pages of notebook paper, I was able to truly tune that bad boy. No dyno required. Just some basic scientific principle.
Also way back in the dinosaur days, everybody figured that "true dual exhaust" all the way to the tail pipe was the best. Lots of guys spent money on exhaust system to make them "true dual" and headers and so on. But it turns out that it is far more effective to have an x-pipe in most V8 street applications and those "racing headers" and big bumpy cams don't always work out on the street either.
True rodding is science, trial and error, experimentation and data collection.
But tons of guys buy wheels and go-fast parts like chicks buy shoes and jewelry. It's about flash and ego and consumerism.
I gave it up a long time ago, but I can't tell you how many 'bad-ss' Camaros that rumbled at redlights that I took $$$ off of with my poor little sleepers. The funniest of all was a wildly setup supercharged early-70's 'vette. It had a big blower and mikuni carbs sticking up through the hood. I thought my goose was cooked, but low-and-behold, my little 302 with a cheap 4bbl carb took him to the cleaners too.
The one guy that used to frustrate the heck out of me was the dentist and his Grand National. I gave up street racing a long, long time ago, it's just too damn dangerous. I used to run on bracket nights at the drag strip. Got some great times, but man, the GN was just so damn consistent. He ran within a few hundredths of his dial in everytime. I could beat him speedwise, but consistency was all his.
On the ISF engine, given its very high compression ratio, mucking with the MAF sensor to the ECU is playing with fire. It's already a fine tuned machine. You might get a few hundredths out of it that way. The rest of the intake is just making noise. No gains from it at all, I guarantee you that. Putting a big dose of Jenny Craig on the car though will get you a whole lot more gains and there are lots of opportunities there and it won't cost you anything but sweat to do it.
Look at this way:
ISF Curb weight/hp = 3800/416=9.1 lbs/hp.
Lose 200lbs worth of stuff 3600/416=8.6 lbs/hp.
That's the same as increasing the horsepower to 442hp. No bolt on intake is going to provide 25hp out of the engine either.
Get rid of all the underhood and under-body plastic trim and covers, pull out the sound proofing, lose the spare and tools, the speakers and amps and so on, lose the big brakes and wheels (unsprung weight is huge gains) and you will in reality, make the car a whole lot quicker.
One of the things I learned from the old-farts (side hint: beware old men in hotrods, they have more money than you), is to establish baselines and do record keeping when changing stuff. When all the other guys were out buying the biggest Holley double pumper carbs they could get their hands on, I read up on the engineering and figured out that I could actually make the car a LOT faster using a much smaller CFM vacuum secondary carburetor. Not only that, but Holley sold the tech data books and the kit of springs and all kinds of other parts to tune the carb to your application. It took a while, but with a stopwatch and some pages of notebook paper, I was able to truly tune that bad boy. No dyno required. Just some basic scientific principle.
Also way back in the dinosaur days, everybody figured that "true dual exhaust" all the way to the tail pipe was the best. Lots of guys spent money on exhaust system to make them "true dual" and headers and so on. But it turns out that it is far more effective to have an x-pipe in most V8 street applications and those "racing headers" and big bumpy cams don't always work out on the street either.
True rodding is science, trial and error, experimentation and data collection.
But tons of guys buy wheels and go-fast parts like chicks buy shoes and jewelry. It's about flash and ego and consumerism.
I gave it up a long time ago, but I can't tell you how many 'bad-ss' Camaros that rumbled at redlights that I took $$$ off of with my poor little sleepers. The funniest of all was a wildly setup supercharged early-70's 'vette. It had a big blower and mikuni carbs sticking up through the hood. I thought my goose was cooked, but low-and-behold, my little 302 with a cheap 4bbl carb took him to the cleaners too.
The one guy that used to frustrate the heck out of me was the dentist and his Grand National. I gave up street racing a long, long time ago, it's just too damn dangerous. I used to run on bracket nights at the drag strip. Got some great times, but man, the GN was just so damn consistent. He ran within a few hundredths of his dial in everytime. I could beat him speedwise, but consistency was all his.
On the ISF engine, given its very high compression ratio, mucking with the MAF sensor to the ECU is playing with fire. It's already a fine tuned machine. You might get a few hundredths out of it that way. The rest of the intake is just making noise. No gains from it at all, I guarantee you that. Putting a big dose of Jenny Craig on the car though will get you a whole lot more gains and there are lots of opportunities there and it won't cost you anything but sweat to do it.
Look at this way:
ISF Curb weight/hp = 3800/416=9.1 lbs/hp.
Lose 200lbs worth of stuff 3600/416=8.6 lbs/hp.
That's the same as increasing the horsepower to 442hp. No bolt on intake is going to provide 25hp out of the engine either.
Get rid of all the underhood and under-body plastic trim and covers, pull out the sound proofing, lose the spare and tools, the speakers and amps and so on, lose the big brakes and wheels (unsprung weight is huge gains) and you will in reality, make the car a whole lot quicker.
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