IS-F posted with a trap speed of 117mph!?
08-28-08, 04:29 AM
#16
I think he might be telling the truth! The 1.88 60' seems improbable and if you look at the 1/8 trap, the left was trapping at only 86 mph. If we could all do 1.8x 60', we'd trap at least 88-89 mph by the 1/8th.
The 2.0x 60' is much more probable, his 1/8 is about 2mph faster but his 1/4 is like 6-7 mph faster.
Keep in mind that there are various tracks accross the country and all the tolerances aren't exactly the same. Also, he might have had more weight reduction then we know of, plus the last few hundred feet could be slightly downhill. In addition - tailwind vs. headwind. A slight 10-15 mph tailwind gave me about 2 mph on my IS350!
PLUS, there are tolerances in engines and maybe he's really skinny! If I were to lose some weight, it'd probably be good for 1/10 and 1 mph!
I, for one, give him the benefit of the doubt and congratulate him on the fastest and quickest IS-F! Now, we have something to really shoot for!
The 2.0x 60' is much more probable, his 1/8 is about 2mph faster but his 1/4 is like 6-7 mph faster.
Keep in mind that there are various tracks accross the country and all the tolerances aren't exactly the same. Also, he might have had more weight reduction then we know of, plus the last few hundred feet could be slightly downhill. In addition - tailwind vs. headwind. A slight 10-15 mph tailwind gave me about 2 mph on my IS350!
PLUS, there are tolerances in engines and maybe he's really skinny! If I were to lose some weight, it'd probably be good for 1/10 and 1 mph!
I, for one, give him the benefit of the doubt and congratulate him on the fastest and quickest IS-F! Now, we have something to really shoot for!
Toothdoc all very good points you have, but I am still very skeptical. A few points from my view.
- New England Dragway is not considered a downhill track.
- He had no tailwind for his run. The track faces NNE. The time of his run shows there was 8.x mph WNW crosswind.
- With regards to the 60' time the 1.889 has more of a possibility than the rest of his run. There are a few tracks where cars can get crazy 60' times such as Great Lakes Dragaway where we have all seen nearly bone stock IS350's get 1.9x 60' times.
- As for engine tolerances...I don't have the calculations, but it would take a significant increase in power for his DA to get a 117mph run. I have never seen this kind of variance between one car to another.
- No ACTUAL Proof (vid, pic, witness, etc)
- His initial 1/4 mile numbers posted didn't match his time slip, so that right there tells me this person is a bit off.
Yes I'm bitter, but I feel I am justified in my thinking.
Last edited by caymandive; 08-28-08 at 05:39 AM.
08-29-08, 08:48 PM
#18
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You guys say you want a witness and I am a witness but once again I know you're all going to disagree and say its not possible but I am a friend of the guy who did this run at 117 and I have his time sheet right here and you can email me with questions if you want. I was not with him on his first few trips up to the track but I know his previous times that I did not witness when he first got the car. The first runs he did back in May he trapped at 12.760 at 115.04 mph his second run I do not remember his time but his mph was trapped at 115.71. Now those were days I was not there the first and only timeI have gone and witnessed him race was Aug 20th on a Wednesday and he ran at about 6:30PM thats me guessing since the gates opened at 6 and I waited a little bit. Now before this race he took ONLY the donut out of the car nothing else in this car is altered in any way its bone stock. I was syked to watch the runs cuz I have only been in this car once and it was fun as hell. Ok now the first run was trapped at 12.510 at 116.94 mph his second run was 12.630 at 116.74 mph and his 3rd run was 12.540 at 117.20 which is his fastest time so far and you guys DID ask for proof of some kind including a witness which I am and am also his friend. Like I said you can check my info and my email and ask questions. I do not know much about races because I am more of a car show guy and I setup my cars for just show due to me being afraid of ruining my engine and not being warrantied. He was driving it in manual mode using paddleshifters obviously. He was running in the RIGHT lane. As of the weather it was a nice cool night not hot and no wind at all. The guy that was waving people onto the starting line waved him up to go against a green knotchback mustang that was in the left lane and it was running skinnies on the front and mickey thompsons on the back for better grip. The mustang took off ahead at the beginning and my friends IS-F caught up right at the end and blew him away. I do not understand alot of the race number statistics like I mentioned before but I dont understand how you can say the numbers "dont add up" when I sat there and watched the races. I am a witness and you asked for one. As for videos or pics all I had was my crappy LG phone which takes lovely blurry videos that I erase due to aggrivation. The times slips may not "add up" like you guys say but I was there. O and I know your going to ask if he lowered his air pressure and the answer is no.
08-30-08, 05:42 AM
#19
You guys say you want a witness and I am a witness but once again I know you're all going to disagree and say its not possible but I am a friend of the guy who did this run at 117 and I have his time sheet right here and you can email me with questions if you want. I was not with him on his first few trips up to the track but I know his previous times that I did not witness when he first got the car. The first runs he did back in May he trapped at 12.760 at 115.04 mph his second run I do not remember his time but his mph was trapped at 115.71. Now those were days I was not there the first and only timeI have gone and witnessed him race was Aug 20th on a Wednesday and he ran at about 6:30PM thats me guessing since the gates opened at 6 and I waited a little bit. Now before this race he took ONLY the donut out of the car nothing else in this car is altered in any way its bone stock. I was syked to watch the runs cuz I have only been in this car once and it was fun as hell. Ok now the first run was trapped at 12.510 at 116.94 mph his second run was 12.630 at 116.74 mph and his 3rd run was 12.540 at 117.20 which is his fastest time so far and you guys DID ask for proof of some kind including a witness which I am and am also his friend. Like I said you can check my info and my email and ask questions. I do not know much about races because I am more of a car show guy and I setup my cars for just show due to me being afraid of ruining my engine and not being warrantied. He was driving it in manual mode using paddleshifters obviously. He was running in the RIGHT lane. As of the weather it was a nice cool night not hot and no wind at all. The guy that was waving people onto the starting line waved him up to go against a green knotchback mustang that was in the left lane and it was running skinnies on the front and mickey thompsons on the back for better grip. The mustang took off ahead at the beginning and my friends IS-F caught up right at the end and blew him away. I do not understand alot of the race number statistics like I mentioned before but I dont understand how you can say the numbers "dont add up" when I sat there and watched the races. I am a witness and you asked for one. As for videos or pics all I had was my crappy LG phone which takes lovely blurry videos that I erase due to aggrivation. The times slips may not "add up" like you guys say but I was there. O and I know your going to ask if he lowered his air pressure and the answer is no.
Thank you. Very impressive then! Gives us all a time to beat.
08-31-08, 03:57 PM
#21
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I actually dont have any info on his other two slips im sorry but i will try an have hime register and throw up some info for u guys to look at. BTW its nice to see some of the people in here were so easily won over with the fact that i witnessed this. In any other forum on the web people would still deny any possibility...some opinions are not so easily changed i guess...
09-01-08, 04:53 PM
#22
Lexus Champion
Toothdoc all very good points you have, but I am still very skeptical. A few points from my view.
- New England Dragway is not considered a downhill track.
- He had no tailwind for his run. The track faces NNE. The time of his run shows there was 8.x mph WNW crosswind.
- With regards to the 60' time the 1.889 has more of a possibility than the rest of his run. There are a few tracks where cars can get crazy 60' times such as Great Lakes Dragaway where we have all seen nearly bone stock IS350's get 1.9x 60' times.
- As for engine tolerances...I don't have the calculations, but it would take a significant increase in power for his DA to get a 117mph run. I have never seen this kind of variance between one car to another.
- No ACTUAL Proof (vid, pic, witness, etc)
- His initial 1/4 mile numbers posted didn't match his time slip, so that right there tells me this person is a bit off.
Yes I'm bitter, but I feel I am justified in my thinking.
- New England Dragway is not considered a downhill track.
- He had no tailwind for his run. The track faces NNE. The time of his run shows there was 8.x mph WNW crosswind.
- With regards to the 60' time the 1.889 has more of a possibility than the rest of his run. There are a few tracks where cars can get crazy 60' times such as Great Lakes Dragaway where we have all seen nearly bone stock IS350's get 1.9x 60' times.
- As for engine tolerances...I don't have the calculations, but it would take a significant increase in power for his DA to get a 117mph run. I have never seen this kind of variance between one car to another.
- No ACTUAL Proof (vid, pic, witness, etc)
- His initial 1/4 mile numbers posted didn't match his time slip, so that right there tells me this person is a bit off.
Yes I'm bitter, but I feel I am justified in my thinking.
I think the times are very possible as we don't what condition his car was in when it raced. Also how can you say he had no tail wind for his run? Were you there and measured everything the moment he ran? Wheather reports only report the average if you didn't know.
I just love doubters, can't handle that they have been beaten.
09-01-08, 05:37 PM
#23
I love how you say the 1.889 time has "more" possibility than the 117mph trap speed to suit your way of thinking.
I think the times are very possible as we don't what condition his car was in when it raced. Also how can you say he had no tail wind for his run? Were you there and measured everything the moment he ran? Wheather reports only report the average if you didn't know.
I just love doubters, can't handle that they have been beaten.
I think the times are very possible as we don't what condition his car was in when it raced. Also how can you say he had no tail wind for his run? Were you there and measured everything the moment he ran? Wheather reports only report the average if you didn't know.
I just love doubters, can't handle that they have been beaten.
Hey why don't you go up and read post #19. You know stock IS350's can get 1.9x 60' times so why would it be so impossible to see a 1.8x 60' time out of an IS-F!? On the other hand gaining that much trap speed requires a significant bump in power or a down hill track and things in my mind just don't add up. I'm a factual guy that likes to see proof and how the numbers add up and the 117mph just didn't add up. I've been and will be very scientific with drag strip results and I know what is reasonable and what is not. I can damn near predict what an IS350 or and IS-F will run even before they hit the track. A witness came aboard and offered his .02... so to be fair it's just going to be accepted as such.
Oh and you are wrong about the tail wind comment. If you go to the following link you can see clearly the wind conditions for his run and you will notice that the recorded times before, during and after the run the wind is all going in the same direction and that is not tailwind my friend. I'm just showing you that I'm not full of crap and making stuff up. I collect the data and analyze the results. http://www.wunderground.com/history/...q_statename=NA
FWIW...You seemed to understand my logic here when Badman Forever did his 1/4mi runs. https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...5&postcount=29
Last edited by caymandive; 09-01-08 at 06:06 PM.
09-01-08, 06:58 PM
#24
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I love how you say the 1.889 time has "more" possibility than the 117mph trap speed to suit your way of thinking.
I think the times are very possible as we don't what condition his car was in when it raced. Also how can you say he had no tail wind for his run? Were you there and measured everything the moment he ran? Wheather reports only report the average if you didn't know.
I just love doubters, can't handle that they have been beaten.
I think the times are very possible as we don't what condition his car was in when it raced. Also how can you say he had no tail wind for his run? Were you there and measured everything the moment he ran? Wheather reports only report the average if you didn't know.
I just love doubters, can't handle that they have been beaten.
I don't know how there is any way to dispute the science that has been brought to the table here by caymandive and by personal experience. Even if somebody claims they were there and gives there personal statement it is still shady as hell.
Still don't know what to believe...
09-02-08, 06:38 PM
#28
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While anything is possible, and I certaintanly wasn't there to witness the run, there are several formulas available to drag car builders to estimate various components to meet a certain performace criteria.
The formula found here
http://www.ajdesigner.com/phphorsepo...horsepower.php
allows you to input vehicle weight, ET and trap speed to "guesstimate" a cars HP figures. This is in no way precise but it gives a general performance window. The equations can be manipulated in several ways to get values for speed, HP, ET, etc. as long as you can supply 3 pieces of the puzzle.
If you use the link and plugin the cars estimated weight (I used advertised "dry" weight of 3780 lbs.), ET (12.5 seconds) and trap speed (117 mph) , you get the following results :
If you use the ET method of computing the HP required to get 3780 lbs to go 12.5 seconds in a quarter mile you see a value of 383.5 HP....I think this is wrhp.
If you use the trap speed method of computing the HP required to get 3780 lbs to go 117 mph in the quarter mile you see a value of 472.5 HP...again, I think this is measured as wrhp.
Go check the C6 Corvette LS3/Z06 forums for the trap speeds of the 430/436 HP LS3 and 505HP Z06 cars with stock everything and I think you will see a pattern of weight/HP/ET/Trap speed.
I don't think anything shy of the Corvette power/weight ratios is going to run close to a 117 trap, but anything's possible.
The formula found here
http://www.ajdesigner.com/phphorsepo...horsepower.php
allows you to input vehicle weight, ET and trap speed to "guesstimate" a cars HP figures. This is in no way precise but it gives a general performance window. The equations can be manipulated in several ways to get values for speed, HP, ET, etc. as long as you can supply 3 pieces of the puzzle.
If you use the link and plugin the cars estimated weight (I used advertised "dry" weight of 3780 lbs.), ET (12.5 seconds) and trap speed (117 mph) , you get the following results :
If you use the ET method of computing the HP required to get 3780 lbs to go 12.5 seconds in a quarter mile you see a value of 383.5 HP....I think this is wrhp.
If you use the trap speed method of computing the HP required to get 3780 lbs to go 117 mph in the quarter mile you see a value of 472.5 HP...again, I think this is measured as wrhp.
Go check the C6 Corvette LS3/Z06 forums for the trap speeds of the 430/436 HP LS3 and 505HP Z06 cars with stock everything and I think you will see a pattern of weight/HP/ET/Trap speed.
I don't think anything shy of the Corvette power/weight ratios is going to run close to a 117 trap, but anything's possible.
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