foup

That's your opinion. I don't think so. People who buy Porsche Turbos do it because it used to be the reference (short of owning a "un-drivable" or "commute unfriendly" or "unreliable" supercar like a Ferrari or a Lambo) in term of performance for everyday use. Sure it's not cheap but, honestly, you don't show others you can afford a car simply because you're driving it. Remember, we are in America and in America 90% of the population live with ever growing debts and if you increase your debt you are not showing others that you're more wealthy... If you want to show your wealth buy a $1M or $2M car because usually they don't sell those to everyday Joes.

To come back to Porsche I predict that many are going to unload their Porsche, take terrible losses and instead get GTR, Z06 or ZR1. Yes they would take terrible losses because why would you a buy a used 2008 Porsche Turbo for 110K when you can have a new GTR for 80K? The problem with Porsche, and don't get me wrong I love their design, is that they sat idle for too long and are now struggling to come back. Now a days pretty much every other car manufacturer makes its own "supercar" or almost "supercar" like model that equals or exceeds Porsche's performance. That spells trouble for the future.

Furthermore, as mentioned above, every new car that comes with more performance that an existing model but at a cheaper price dramatically devaluates that existing model, something not really enjoyable for current owners. But that's the market and that's America...

Lexus999

again im perfectly happy with the F... love the look, the difference, and the relaibility.... but to me i like the luxury and the speed and im looking forward to seeing some apps

iSuxeL

iTrader: (21)

There will always be someone faster out there, therefore I stopped worrying about it. Just have the car for your enjoyment.

primecut

iTrader: (1)

I'd agree with you if you are talking about an IS-F or an m3. But we are talking about a 911 turbo, a car that costs over 120k. I don't care how much of a poser you are, there is no way an avg. joe can attempt to buy that car. And no, people who buy 911 turbos will not cross shop a GT-R or a corvette, unless it's a second car. Maybe you haven't seen too many 911 turbos, but 99% of the ones I've seen are driving by rich old men who will never drive the car hard and will never take it to the track. It's their symbol of wealth.

kickhard

Well your wrong about 911 turbo people cross shopping or considering to buy a GTR. It already has been done by porsche owners. Some selling the porsche to get the GTR and some adding it to their stable. Bottom line is the GTR is out performing the 911 turbo at a 50k discount in price. Even with Nissans 10% price increase on remaining 2009s its still a bargin. Now cross shopping 911tt to a ZR-1 is different. They both cost about the same and some porsche owners wont go that route because of build quality issues. But all 3 are great cars and really many of us would be stoked just to own any of them. It all boils down to what grabs your heart the most.

Celsius

iTrader: (1)

did your buddy order the NEW CTS-V? If so, he made a good choice because that thing is QUICK!

ToothDoc

I thought Pulleys (or is that pullies?) were for changing ratios for superchargers. In any case, yes, a modded 135 is quick but it's still a modded car w/o factory support. Even BMW is really frowning on upping the boost on the 3.0 tt engines. They obviously put a limit for reliability issues and future resale/depreciation.

In any case, I didn't get the IS-F for purely performance. I got it for a combination of factors. My number one and two factors were safety and reliability. No matter how much we ***** about the heavy weight, a 3800 pound car with a 5 star safety rating is just plain safer than a 2500 pound car in a collision. So, I personally embrace the heft (except at the drag strip and racetrack which is less than 1% of my driving).

foup

I was talking about the younger generation. Many of those (go to other forums) are trading their 911 turbos to GTR or ZR-1 because they want the fastest cars. I don't see too many "rich old men" driving 911 turbos around where I live, most of them seem pretty young. The who want to show off their wealth tend to drive $500K+ cars (Carrera GT, Enzo, etc). But that's the Silicon Valley...

Isfast

iTrader: (13)

An owners opinion:
I have a 997 TT. I have no intention of trading it in for the GTR. I would not mind ADDING it to the collection as it seems like a fantastic car. The TT is not just about the performance. It is about the sum of the parts that invoke the five senses. I also did not buy it to impress anyone and yes, I drive the living **** out of it....

f=ma

I disagree, I'm in the market trying to get a gt3. I wanted a performance sports car. And I will pick a porsche anyday over a gtr and a lot of people I know will too.
Its not really to show off, but sort of like an image. I don't want people thinking I went out and bought a GTR, which is for young people, thinking i had a mid-life crisis. It's just the Porsche has class and style, the gtr imo does not. Btw, im from the silicon valley
It's more classy, and whats cooler than an RR car?

dkaplan435

I'd love to test drive a GTR... But then I'd probably want to own it and my wife might not like that (at all).

foup

I know this is a Lexus forum so I am going to restrain from keeping this discussion going forever but my main point was that Porsche, like Mercedes a while back, has lost its appeal to many because they thought their superiority, in performance+style for Porsche and in class+style for Mercedes, would never get matched.

Younger generations care less about "style" or "class" (as defined by older generations) and play the cool factor instead. For them, if it's cool its classy and it's cool it's stylish. Yes its subjective. But one thing that is not subjective is performance. As mentioned in this thread, all performance cars must report on their 0-60 and 1/4 and younger generations pay a lot of attention to those numbers.

German manufacturers did not see this coming but they are in for a rough drive in the coming years. Even American manufacturers are now playing in their turf (too bad they spent the last decade making huge/useless SUVs instead of making more Corvette-like or hybrid products). Perhaps German manufacturers should hire Seinfield to get back their cool factor and also cut the price of their cars by 25% because their car are not 25% more cool, 25% more reliable or 25% faster. In the meanwhile more will continue to defect, whether because of a mid-life crisis as you mentioned or a quest for better performance. Let's wait for a couple years and look at the sales...

Scottward

At least you don't have to worry about your high pressure fuel pump failing and stranding you on the highway or on a trip somewhere:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169760

Or a factory induced lag on new or updated cars. BMW is living on it laurels from the 07 N54 cars with the original tunes. The new ones have much more lag because they are trying to minimize waste gate and fuel pump problems, which there have been many.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147781

kickhard

f=ma

I am sure you have done all your homework and driven the GT3 and others in its class but to over look a GTR on your assumptions is something that tells me your just dead set on a porsche for whatever reasons you have. And thats cool. Here is a link for you. Maybe you can find a GT3 from one of these guys that are trading/selling for a GTR

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/n...-gt3-gt-r.html

Its your opinion sure but the GTR is not a Young persons car. Hell I am not young but not old either 37yr old here. I know several 50+year owners of the GTR also. Also a GTR is just as capable as RR car as the GT3. Probably more so in the case of a non professional driver like you and I

kickhard

Yep I couldnt agree with you more. You hit it right on. Remember years ago when the Lexus first came out and no one thought a Toyota could be a lux car?? Now look at Lexus!! #1 in reliabily where BMW and MB is not even cracking the #10. The same is happening right now with the GTR in the sports car world and it is living up to the hype at a 50k diff in price.