New Axis wheels for IS-F
11-09-08, 04:38 PM
#31
So you would not support Axis and their work on the IS-F?
http://my.is/forums/f136/five-axis-f...no-56k-366833/
http://my.is/forums/f136/five-axis-f...no-56k-366833/
11-09-08, 04:50 PM
#34
Lexus Champion
I believe that when you build a car it represents an extension of yourself...It is a form of an art and I believe that you have to have the finest materials to make this art into something you can feel proud of..Not a single detail should be neglected or ignored...Selection of wheels is a huge part of making your vehicle from so-so into something special...I personally would not choose some mediocre wheels to represent my art and myself...
Looks like you guys already made up your mind before you started this thread...I don't see why this thread should still be opened for discussion...
Best of luck you
Looks like you guys already made up your mind before you started this thread...I don't see why this thread should still be opened for discussion...
Best of luck you
This is the kind of post that I would resent a little...if I actually cared what other people thought about my car
I have a "lower priced, inferior wheel" on my F...but for what I believe is good reason. I'm not going to go spend similar money to what the BBS wheels are ($2700 + tax) for my winter wheels set up. I think that they look good and will serve their purpose...and if one gets dinged up or scratched during the winter...I can replace it for relatively low cost and enjoy my beautiful BBS wheels during the summer.
As a side to this discussion, it is getting increasingly dissappointing to see the amount of criticism and negativity on CL. I don't necessarily like what other people do to their cars...but I don't post it...and the bottom line is it's THEIR CAR...and they can do whatever they want with it. We all have our own opinions on what we think works/looks best and we're never going to all agree...so why bash somebody for doing something you don't agree with?
I LOVE my F...and am happy with the small changes that I made to it...as I'm sure the other owners are.
The only person whose opinion actually matters is my wife's (since ultimately she's paying for it too...lol) and she and I don't need to justify our purchase/set-up and ANY other car owner shouldn't either.
Sorry for the long winded rant...but can't we all just get along and respect that we all make INDIVIDUAL choices that are best for each of US
11-09-08, 04:56 PM
#35
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
11-09-08, 05:06 PM
#36
Thanks..I love my hunk of junk...
Your absolutely right...My first post and third post said I did like the wheel design, I just did not like the quality of the wheel...I don't see how that was bashing when I listed only facts and my humble opinion...Whereas, the OP listed his opinion and false facts...But at the same time, are we going to be much help if the OP decided to buy a set of type R wheels and we'll just sit here and do nothing?
I only wished that my comments were viewed as to help the OP to make a correct decision on a reputable wheel manufactuer that developed quality wheels..But instead he chose to be stubborn and arrogant...
As a side to this discussion, it is getting increasingly dissappointing to see the amount of criticism and negativity on CL. I don't necessarily like what other people do to their cars...but I don't post it...and the bottom line is it's THEIR CAR...and they can do whatever they want with it. We all have our own opinions on what we think works/looks best and we're never going to all agree...so why bash somebody for doing something you don't agree with?
I only wished that my comments were viewed as to help the OP to make a correct decision on a reputable wheel manufactuer that developed quality wheels..But instead he chose to be stubborn and arrogant...
11-09-08, 05:07 PM
#37
Lexus Champion
You must be a very sad individual if you can't take opinions of other people, which obviously you can't. I don't like the wheels and I said so on a public forum or do you only want poeple who agree with you to post? If so write that in your OP for clarification.
And I hate to say this ,but the IS-F would go long before the LS or the Celsior, the IS-F will be a replacement run around car to the Altezza for the wife and when I get time I will drive it when the LS is too big to get through some of the narrow streets here, so you can keep your little snide remarks to yourself.
11-09-08, 05:55 PM
#38
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
My point is that your trading a STRONGER & LIGHTER wheel for a weaker, heavier, less-quality wheel...My point is that you have 55k to spend on a expensive high performance car, why not spend the wheels worthy of an upgrade...IMHO, a wheel that is worth only $350-450 per wheel does not belong on a high-end performance car like the IS-F...
Glad to see the passion, it makes me feel alive and I respect all posters in the forums for being not only car enthusiasts, but people who have the desire to seek the truth and bring their passion to the table. Kudos Clublexus members..........Kudos
11-09-08, 07:04 PM
#39
You don't have to help me understand a thing. I have been buying performance wheels longer than you have been living.
Unless you're racing, 5 lbs means jack. In a race, the unsprung weight of a wheel could mean the difference between winning and losing but who's racing their Lexus.
I can't believe you're feeding in to this stuff.
Look, I prefer high end wheels too. Because of how they look. They aren't stronger than 1 piece cast because the manufacturers make them less dense to achieve the lighter weight. Every high end wheel I've had bends much more easily than the cast wheels I've had. Since they aren't mass produced, they seem to have more problems than mass produced. We've heard the stories. Finish problems, fastener problems, bends, breaks, water holding...you have to baby the high end wheel to keep it looking good and still, eventually it will need refinishing of some type. But we are enthusiasts and we don't care but don't make out like the high end wheel is some type of panacea.
My main point is this, no one should put down a wheel or company they know nothing about, just repeating crap they read on the net. Secondly, don't put down someone for their choices. I didn't say you did this Stefan but as a dealer, people will be influenced by you. Tell them the facts. The fact is high end wheels look better most of the time. That's the only advantage cause they surely won't make your car fly.
PS
I have never heard of any problems with an Axis wheel. I'm sure one has broken somewhere because accidents can happen. But I haven't heard of not one story. Until then, no should say a wheel is crap if they have no proff. I see threads with people saying a brand is crap all the time...just because the wheel is 1 piece cast. That's just immature.
Unless you're racing, 5 lbs means jack. In a race, the unsprung weight of a wheel could mean the difference between winning and losing but who's racing their Lexus.
I can't believe you're feeding in to this stuff.
Look, I prefer high end wheels too. Because of how they look. They aren't stronger than 1 piece cast because the manufacturers make them less dense to achieve the lighter weight. Every high end wheel I've had bends much more easily than the cast wheels I've had. Since they aren't mass produced, they seem to have more problems than mass produced. We've heard the stories. Finish problems, fastener problems, bends, breaks, water holding...you have to baby the high end wheel to keep it looking good and still, eventually it will need refinishing of some type. But we are enthusiasts and we don't care but don't make out like the high end wheel is some type of panacea.
My main point is this, no one should put down a wheel or company they know nothing about, just repeating crap they read on the net. Secondly, don't put down someone for their choices. I didn't say you did this Stefan but as a dealer, people will be influenced by you. Tell them the facts. The fact is high end wheels look better most of the time. That's the only advantage cause they surely won't make your car fly.
PS
I have never heard of any problems with an Axis wheel. I'm sure one has broken somewhere because accidents can happen. But I haven't heard of not one story. Until then, no should say a wheel is crap if they have no proff. I see threads with people saying a brand is crap all the time...just because the wheel is 1 piece cast. That's just immature.
Ice maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that you are suggesting that I don't know my profession, I hope that isn't the case. If so:
The issues that you speak of from Hi-end wheels I am assuming you mean Hi end because of price, doesn't make the properties of the product quality. For an example the wheels you where buying before I was born, most likely were made of 3 cast components, face, inner, and outer. In these cases a cast one piece is stronger then a cast 3 piece.
Then after I born 3 piece wheels began to reduce weight by adding forged centers and cast inners and outers. This reduced some weight but did not improve the structural integrity of the other parts, thus making those parts acceptable to bends, cracks, ect.
More Closer to present day the materials used in certain forged products are made of all forged components. Therefore they are much lighter, much stronger, and yes looks better then a 1piece cast wheel. Here is an example of the make up of the forged components used in a D2FORGED wheel:
Center and Outer Lip- 6061 forged aluminum, then T6 heat treated making it able to withstand pressures up to 48,000PSI. This is the same forged aluminum that airplanes use for the wings because its hi-ductility (Ductility is a mechanical property used to describe the extent to which materials can be deformed plastically without fracture) light weight, and strength.
Inner Lip (Barrel)- 5081 Forged aluminum, making this a completely forged wheel.
The weight of a 20x10" D2FORGED wheel using a small disc is 24.3lbs
In the real world of driving on real world streets and not of the track the make up of a fully forged wheel is much stronger and lighter then that of cast. The difference is dropping in a pothole with a cast wheel is, a cast wheel will more then likely crack, where as that same hole with a forged wheel will either not damage it (ductility) or simply bend the inner barrel slightly and loose no air.
BTW speak for your self, I drive my performance car hard. I've also driven Cathy’s car often, so I didn't need to own the car to understand it, and its characteristics.
So even though you've been buying wheels before I was born, I help engineer them so I believe I have a slightly better grasp on the fundamental differences of Cast vs a forged wheel. That being said, if none of this is your concern then please purchase all your one piece wheels from me, thanks
11-09-08, 07:05 PM
#40
Pole Position
I live in Houston so I don't have to worry about winter wheels and tires, but if I did, I would probably buy an inexpensive set of wheels for the winter set. First, if they are for winter you probably won't be accelerating all that hard and cornering like in the summer so the strength of the wheels really shouldn't matter that much. Second, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To each his own, etc. etc., etc.
11-09-08, 07:07 PM
#41
I don't see why you have to have an IS-F to comment. This is public forum. And if you post something, expect and respect opinions from both sides. Don't call people out just because they disagree with you.
1. Axis is not the same company as 5axis.
2. Axis wheels have had a bad reputation in the past for quality issues. In fact, there was a batch of Axis Hiros that cracked and many owners were concerned. If you are saying that you have never heard of any problems with Axis, then you didn't do your homework. In fact, many enthusiasts call them craxis. I don't know if they have since improved, but that's what it is.
3. I had Axis wheels on my previous car. Quality was ok, but not great. You get what you paid for. They are mediocre wheels for low/medium prices.
4. It doesn't matter whether you think the Axis wheels look better or not. The fact is that they are a definite downgrade in quality coming from the forged BBS. This is fact. However, like others said, there's no need to spend 2k per wheel to get the same quality, if not better than the forged BBS.
5. Just because a wheel is forged doesn't mean it's the end-all, and just because a wheel is cast doesn't mean it sucks. It depends on the company and the quality of the production process. A cast wheel can be just as good as a forged wheel.
6. Rotational mass != 4 x regular mass. It's annoying when people exaggerate the wheel weight difference. Believe it or not, I've heard the 10x formula before. ha ha
1. Axis is not the same company as 5axis.
2. Axis wheels have had a bad reputation in the past for quality issues. In fact, there was a batch of Axis Hiros that cracked and many owners were concerned. If you are saying that you have never heard of any problems with Axis, then you didn't do your homework. In fact, many enthusiasts call them craxis. I don't know if they have since improved, but that's what it is.
3. I had Axis wheels on my previous car. Quality was ok, but not great. You get what you paid for. They are mediocre wheels for low/medium prices.
4. It doesn't matter whether you think the Axis wheels look better or not. The fact is that they are a definite downgrade in quality coming from the forged BBS. This is fact. However, like others said, there's no need to spend 2k per wheel to get the same quality, if not better than the forged BBS.
5. Just because a wheel is forged doesn't mean it's the end-all, and just because a wheel is cast doesn't mean it sucks. It depends on the company and the quality of the production process. A cast wheel can be just as good as a forged wheel.
6. Rotational mass != 4 x regular mass. It's annoying when people exaggerate the wheel weight difference. Believe it or not, I've heard the 10x formula before. ha ha
11-09-08, 07:14 PM
#42
Ice maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that you are suggesting that I don't know my profession, I hope that isn't the case. If so:
The issues that you speak of from Hi-end wheels I am assuming you mean Hi end because of price, doesn't make the properties of the product quality. For an example the wheels you where buying before I was born, most likely were made of 3 cast components, face, inner, and outer. In these cases a cast one piece is stronger then a cast 3 piece.
Then after I born 3 piece wheels began to reduce weight by adding forged centers and cast inners and outers. This reduced some weight but did not improve the structural integrity of the other parts, thus making those parts acceptable to bends, cracks, ect.
More Closer to present day the materials used in certain forged products are made of all forged components. Therefore they are much lighter, much stronger, and yes looks better then a 1piece cast wheel. Here is an example of the make up of the forged components used in a D2FORGED wheel:
Center and Outer Lip- 6061 forged aluminum, then T6 heat treated making it able to withstand pressures up to 48,000PSI. This is the same forged aluminum that airplanes use for the wings because its hi-ductility (Ductility is a mechanical property used to describe the extent to which materials can be deformed plastically without fracture) light weight, and strength.
Inner Lip (Barrel)- 5081 Forged aluminum, making this a completely forged wheel.
The weight of a 20x10" D2FORGED wheel using a small disc is 24.3lbs
In the real world of driving on real world streets and not of the track the make up of a fully forged wheel is much stronger and lighter then that of cast. The difference is dropping in a pothole with a cast wheel is, a cast wheel will more then likely crack, where as that same hole with a forged wheel will either not damage it (ductility) or simply bend the inner barrel slightly and loose no air.
BTW speak for your self, I drive my performance car hard. I've also driven Cathy’s car often, so I didn't need to own the car to understand it, and its characteristics.
So even though you've been buying wheels before I was born, I help engineer them so I believe I have a slightly better grasp on the fundamental differences of Cast vs a forged wheel. That being said, if none of this is your concern then please purchase all your one piece wheels from me, thanks
The issues that you speak of from Hi-end wheels I am assuming you mean Hi end because of price, doesn't make the properties of the product quality. For an example the wheels you where buying before I was born, most likely were made of 3 cast components, face, inner, and outer. In these cases a cast one piece is stronger then a cast 3 piece.
Then after I born 3 piece wheels began to reduce weight by adding forged centers and cast inners and outers. This reduced some weight but did not improve the structural integrity of the other parts, thus making those parts acceptable to bends, cracks, ect.
More Closer to present day the materials used in certain forged products are made of all forged components. Therefore they are much lighter, much stronger, and yes looks better then a 1piece cast wheel. Here is an example of the make up of the forged components used in a D2FORGED wheel:
Center and Outer Lip- 6061 forged aluminum, then T6 heat treated making it able to withstand pressures up to 48,000PSI. This is the same forged aluminum that airplanes use for the wings because its hi-ductility (Ductility is a mechanical property used to describe the extent to which materials can be deformed plastically without fracture) light weight, and strength.
Inner Lip (Barrel)- 5081 Forged aluminum, making this a completely forged wheel.
The weight of a 20x10" D2FORGED wheel using a small disc is 24.3lbs
In the real world of driving on real world streets and not of the track the make up of a fully forged wheel is much stronger and lighter then that of cast. The difference is dropping in a pothole with a cast wheel is, a cast wheel will more then likely crack, where as that same hole with a forged wheel will either not damage it (ductility) or simply bend the inner barrel slightly and loose no air.
BTW speak for your self, I drive my performance car hard. I've also driven Cathy’s car often, so I didn't need to own the car to understand it, and its characteristics.
So even though you've been buying wheels before I was born, I help engineer them so I believe I have a slightly better grasp on the fundamental differences of Cast vs a forged wheel. That being said, if none of this is your concern then please purchase all your one piece wheels from me, thanks
That's all I'm trying to say.
I'm just tired of so many internet parrots saying this wheel or that wheel is crap just because it doesn't cost 5K.
11-09-08, 07:15 PM
#43
8Speed: you are right man there is nothing wrong with your choice of wheel to run as a knock around set for winter. I just want to clear up that at the end of the day its your car, do as you please and enjoy it. I was just offering what I thought was sound advise based on my knowledge of your car and of wheels, be good man
11-09-08, 07:23 PM
#44
Stef, I know you know your profession. That's why I was wondering why you agreed with the Axis is crap talk. Is a higher end wheel more desirable, yes. Will an Axis do a satisfactory job with no more liklihood of an issue, yes again.
That's all I'm trying to say.
I'm just tired of so many internet parrots saying this wheel or that wheel is crap just because it doesn't cost 5K.
That's all I'm trying to say.
I'm just tired of so many internet parrots saying this wheel or that wheel is crap just because it doesn't cost 5K.
BTW I've had many diffent sets of wheels from 1pc cast, 3pc cast, 2pc forged, 3piece fully forged, and I deal with NY streets so I've cracked, bent, blew out seals, all the above.
11-09-08, 07:28 PM
#45
Okay just wanted to be sure, I pride myself based on giving our customers knowledgeable advice when it comes to their purchases. Like I said for regular cars you buy forged for the look, for performance cars you buy forged for look and purpose.
BTW I've had many diffent sets of wheels from 1pc cast, 3pc cast, 2pc forged, 3piece fully forged, and I deal with NY streets so I've cracked, bent, blew out seals, all the above.
BTW I've had many diffent sets of wheels from 1pc cast, 3pc cast, 2pc forged, 3piece fully forged, and I deal with NY streets so I've cracked, bent, blew out seals, all the above.
I bought 2 sets of Sevas S-Star, one from you guys. No issues from either. Still have one set for 2 years now. Not a problem from it and since they are black, they look just as good as any wheel. I tried changing them but my wife keeps asking me why. They do the job and she likes the look. She drives the car and refuses to let me buy expensive wheels just because a bunch of car guys think whatever they think...including me....and she's right.
Last edited by Ice350; 11-09-08 at 07:33 PM.