Why didn't Lexus make a manual version of the F?
04-22-09, 12:02 PM
#34
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What kind of automatic Lexus chose is irrelevant to the question of why they won't offer a manual. Almost every other performance car offers a manual as standard and if not, as an option. It should be.
The reason Lexus chose not to is a business decision. They do not think that the sales lost to BMW, Infinity, Nissan, Porsche make up for the cost of developing a quality 6 speed manual for the IS-F (let alone is IS250), and getting it certified through the emissions testing requirements. I think that they believe that they will not sell enough manuals to justify the development costs. I think they are wrong, since they have not put a quality manual in a Lexus since they stopped putting the Supra transmissions in the SC300. Lexus' original purpose was not a performance oriented car company. It was a brand developed to sell US consumers on buying "luxury" (high markup/profit) Japanese cars. For their original market, a manual transmission was not essential. No luxury US cars at the time had a manual option. As Lexus has expanded it's line-up, it has neglected the development of a quality manual option, for historical as well as cost reasons..
The reason Lexus chose not to is a business decision. They do not think that the sales lost to BMW, Infinity, Nissan, Porsche make up for the cost of developing a quality 6 speed manual for the IS-F (let alone is IS250), and getting it certified through the emissions testing requirements. I think that they believe that they will not sell enough manuals to justify the development costs. I think they are wrong, since they have not put a quality manual in a Lexus since they stopped putting the Supra transmissions in the SC300. Lexus' original purpose was not a performance oriented car company. It was a brand developed to sell US consumers on buying "luxury" (high markup/profit) Japanese cars. For their original market, a manual transmission was not essential. No luxury US cars at the time had a manual option. As Lexus has expanded it's line-up, it has neglected the development of a quality manual option, for historical as well as cost reasons..
04-22-09, 02:50 PM
#35
Lexus Test Driver
What kind of automatic Lexus chose is irrelevant to the question of why they won't offer a manual. Almost every other performance car offers a manual as standard and if not, as an option. It should be.
The reason Lexus chose not to is a business decision. They do not think that the sales lost to BMW, Infinity, Nissan, Porsche make up for the cost of developing a quality 6 speed manual for the IS-F (let alone is IS250), and getting it certified through the emissions testing requirements. I think that they believe that they will not sell enough manuals to justify the development costs. I think they are wrong, since they have not put a quality manual in a Lexus since they stopped putting the Supra transmissions in the SC300. Lexus' original purpose was not a performance oriented car company. It was a brand developed to sell US consumers on buying "luxury" (high markup/profit) Japanese cars. For their original market, a manual transmission was not essential. No luxury US cars at the time had a manual option. As Lexus has expanded it's line-up, it has neglected the development of a quality manual option, for historical as well as cost reasons..
The reason Lexus chose not to is a business decision. They do not think that the sales lost to BMW, Infinity, Nissan, Porsche make up for the cost of developing a quality 6 speed manual for the IS-F (let alone is IS250), and getting it certified through the emissions testing requirements. I think that they believe that they will not sell enough manuals to justify the development costs. I think they are wrong, since they have not put a quality manual in a Lexus since they stopped putting the Supra transmissions in the SC300. Lexus' original purpose was not a performance oriented car company. It was a brand developed to sell US consumers on buying "luxury" (high markup/profit) Japanese cars. For their original market, a manual transmission was not essential. No luxury US cars at the time had a manual option. As Lexus has expanded it's line-up, it has neglected the development of a quality manual option, for historical as well as cost reasons..
The direct competition to the IS-F is the C63 which is only offered in a 7-speed auto, the now discontinued RS4 (6 speed manual) and M3 which offers both. BMW's DCT is indeed faster than its manual counterpart but had to be recalled for engine stalling on downshifts. Lexus got it right the first time, no one is complaining but you and you don't even own an F. You're a troll and contribute nothing to this forum other than incredulous and inane spew.
Oh, did I mention that I average 28 mpg fwy because of my horrid 8speed automatic? Must have slipped my mind
04-22-09, 03:13 PM
#36
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What kind of automatic Lexus chose is irrelevant to the question of why they won't offer a manual. Almost every other performance car offers a manual as standard and if not, as an option. It should be.
The reason Lexus chose not to is a business decision. They do not think that the sales lost to BMW, Infinity, Nissan, Porsche make up for the cost of developing a quality 6 speed manual for the IS-F (let alone is IS250), and getting it certified through the emissions testing requirements. I think that they believe that they will not sell enough manuals to justify the development costs. I think they are wrong, since they have not put a quality manual in a Lexus since they stopped putting the Supra transmissions in the SC300. Lexus' original purpose was not a performance oriented car company. It was a brand developed to sell US consumers on buying "luxury" (high markup/profit) Japanese cars. For their original market, a manual transmission was not essential. No luxury US cars at the time had a manual option. As Lexus has expanded it's line-up, it has neglected the development of a quality manual option, for historical as well as cost reasons..
The reason Lexus chose not to is a business decision. They do not think that the sales lost to BMW, Infinity, Nissan, Porsche make up for the cost of developing a quality 6 speed manual for the IS-F (let alone is IS250), and getting it certified through the emissions testing requirements. I think that they believe that they will not sell enough manuals to justify the development costs. I think they are wrong, since they have not put a quality manual in a Lexus since they stopped putting the Supra transmissions in the SC300. Lexus' original purpose was not a performance oriented car company. It was a brand developed to sell US consumers on buying "luxury" (high markup/profit) Japanese cars. For their original market, a manual transmission was not essential. No luxury US cars at the time had a manual option. As Lexus has expanded it's line-up, it has neglected the development of a quality manual option, for historical as well as cost reasons..
Lexus knew there was no way they could capture the majority of the market niche especially with the M3 and AMG crowd being so loyal to their respective brands. But they atleast knew they could probably start chipping away from the iceberg like they have been over the past year or so. Lexus engineers took a complete shot in the dark at creating the ISF so it had to be pretty rock solid from the drawing board. So why consider developing a new tranny and prolonging the car's development with no real ROI for a manual with their target audience? Especially since it seems that racing, F1 etc is moving more towards paddle shift auto/DCT anyways. If you ask me, they made a very good decision in making the auto and one they will not regret. Maybe Lexus will not only be the first company to create an 8-speed auto, but also an 8-speed manual.Hmmmmmmmm
_DRE_
04-22-09, 04:14 PM
#37
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I like how a lot of posters here think an F1-style paddle-shifted transmission (be it in a Ferrari, a Lambo, or an actual F1 car) are comparable to the automatic in the IS-F. For one, there is no Automatic option on any Ferrari that I can think of, nor any Lamborghini. No current F1 team uses a transmission with a torque converter. A computer-controlled manual transmission is not an automatic. BMW uses a sequential manual trans on the M3, not an automatic.
The bottom line is, Lexus made this decision because they had a transmission that was "good enough" for what they wanted it to do, and were too lazy (or cheap) to develop something else. Lexus could have easily developed a Dual-Clutch transmission that outperforms the auto, and offered a traditional manual transmission to boot. But the bean-counters won.
The bottom line is, Lexus made this decision because they had a transmission that was "good enough" for what they wanted it to do, and were too lazy (or cheap) to develop something else. Lexus could have easily developed a Dual-Clutch transmission that outperforms the auto, and offered a traditional manual transmission to boot. But the bean-counters won.
04-22-09, 04:39 PM
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yes, I also post as maj75, because one account is not enough for me.
Is it shocking that more than one person would like to have the CHOICE of getting a manual transmission in a "performance" vehicle? If somebody likes the 8-speed, and there are a bunch of reasons to like it, that's cool. But personally, I would like the option to do it "the way god intended", with my left foot on a clutch pedal.
Is it shocking that more than one person would like to have the CHOICE of getting a manual transmission in a "performance" vehicle? If somebody likes the 8-speed, and there are a bunch of reasons to like it, that's cool. But personally, I would like the option to do it "the way god intended", with my left foot on a clutch pedal.
04-22-09, 04:55 PM
#41
Lexus Test Driver
yes, I also post as maj75, because one account is not enough for me.
Is it shocking that more than one person would like to have the CHOICE of getting a manual transmission in a "performance" vehicle? If somebody likes the 8-speed, and there are a bunch of reasons to like it, that's cool. But personally, I would like the option to do it "the way god intended", with my left foot on a clutch pedal.
Is it shocking that more than one person would like to have the CHOICE of getting a manual transmission in a "performance" vehicle? If somebody likes the 8-speed, and there are a bunch of reasons to like it, that's cool. But personally, I would like the option to do it "the way god intended", with my left foot on a clutch pedal.
Then buy something else and move on with your life so we don't have to sift through your hatred towards a car we love and admire!
04-22-09, 05:22 PM
#42
Lexus Champion
yes, I also post as maj75, because one account is not enough for me.
Is it shocking that more than one person would like to have the CHOICE of getting a manual transmission in a "performance" vehicle? If somebody likes the 8-speed, and there are a bunch of reasons to like it, that's cool. But personally, I would like the option to do it "the way god intended", with my left foot on a clutch pedal.
Is it shocking that more than one person would like to have the CHOICE of getting a manual transmission in a "performance" vehicle? If somebody likes the 8-speed, and there are a bunch of reasons to like it, that's cool. But personally, I would like the option to do it "the way god intended", with my left foot on a clutch pedal.
This argument reminds me of people who say vinyl records are better than CD's. Keep up the good work bj888!
04-22-09, 05:40 PM
#43
Lexus Test Driver
04-22-09, 06:45 PM
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