K&N Intake Released for the F
#1
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Just wanted to pass this information on to anyone who might be interested. I was searching around and decided to check out the K&N site for fun and found they released their intake system for the F. Looks like a single stage intake system much like the SRT...I wonder if it comes with any type of ECU modifications like the SRT one does...Discuss and enjoy
http://www.knfilters.com/search/prod...Prod=69-8703TS
http://www.knfilters.com/search/prod...Prod=69-8703TS
#2
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K&N does not add any piggy backs to fool the computer. Unlike the other intake, they need a piggy back to fool the MAF sensor there is the correct amount of airflow going through. Without it, you will get a check engine light.
#3
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It says that the dyno runs were done in 3rd gear on the dyno sheet. So doesn't that mean the power they yielded is not accurate? We all know 6th gear is the 1:1 from multiple different dyno threads. But how would having the run in third affect the HP gains.
Please advise
Please advise
#6
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I enlarged the pict from the K&N web site. Also the thing is $320.00. It looks like it's takes air from the fender area that the stock secondary pulls from, but is not sealed from the heat, except by the hood. Interesting that they left the stock first stage air scoop intake intact even though it appears to be impotent.
Lou
Lou
#7
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I've been waiting for a full intake for awhile now for the F. But I'm still hesistant to buy it due to a couple of reasons:
1. I had a K&N drop in in the stock air box and that did not agree with the F at all. I was running rich and loosing MPG. I cleaned the MAF and put in back the stock air filter and instantly gained back my MPG. This could mean that the stock MAF does not agree with he K&N filter oil or something else.
2. The dyno they have posted is in 3rd gear so I'm not sure how accurate it is.
3. SRT posted similar results and we all know how those claims by SRT turned out...very over rated!
I'm going to wait a little while until someone dyno's one and actually replicates the numbers that K&N did. But nonetheless, it's nice to see more and more products come out for the F...Darshana S...
1. I had a K&N drop in in the stock air box and that did not agree with the F at all. I was running rich and loosing MPG. I cleaned the MAF and put in back the stock air filter and instantly gained back my MPG. This could mean that the stock MAF does not agree with he K&N filter oil or something else.
2. The dyno they have posted is in 3rd gear so I'm not sure how accurate it is.
3. SRT posted similar results and we all know how those claims by SRT turned out...very over rated!
I'm going to wait a little while until someone dyno's one and actually replicates the numbers that K&N did. But nonetheless, it's nice to see more and more products come out for the F...Darshana S...
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#8
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One thing of concern is the dyno chart. http://www.kandn.com/dynocharts/69-8703_dyno.pdf
The rev limit looks a bit high for one and they don't list the run file name.
Also with all the issues with just a drop in filter messing up the MAF why on earth would anyone even consider a full K&N cone filter?
The rev limit looks a bit high for one and they don't list the run file name.
Also with all the issues with just a drop in filter messing up the MAF why on earth would anyone even consider a full K&N cone filter?
#10
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Is this cone filter dry or oiled? That should be the #1 concern as we all know that our MAF sensor is pretty sensitive. On the other hand the rev limiter looks OK to me, 6800 RPM.
Now about the 3rd gear dyno pull, I've reading a lot and I understand that there should be no difference with a 6th gear pull. Remember that we hit the speed limiter in 6th, so even if it's a 1:1 ratio we're limited. Please read the following comment from a guy at M3Post.com to understand better. Ignore the numbers, the logic is what matters:
Now about the 3rd gear dyno pull, I've reading a lot and I understand that there should be no difference with a 6th gear pull. Remember that we hit the speed limiter in 6th, so even if it's a 1:1 ratio we're limited. Please read the following comment from a guy at M3Post.com to understand better. Ignore the numbers, the logic is what matters:
Let me see if I can destroy this myth without starting a flame war. This myth probably wouldn't even exist if more people understood how the power is transmitted from the motor to the wheels. I think this myth continues to propogate -- mostly -- because it sounds like it makes sense on the surface and most people don't understand how power is transmitted. So they blindly accept it, and the myth continues to propogate. So let's see if I can dispell it -- at least for the 20 people who may read this message.
Regardless of torque and RPM, some value of power exists at the flywheel. The flywheel causes the primary shaft of the transmission to spin. The gear on the primary shaft has some number of teeth on it, and meshes with another gear on the secondary shaft that has a different number of teeth on it. This is how you get a gear ratio: 87 teeth on the primary divided by 55 teeth on the secondary equals a 1.58:1 gear ratio (87/55=1.58). Obviously a 1:1 gear ratio has the same exact number of teeth on the primary and secondary shafts.
The drive shaft is connected to the secondary shaft of the transmission. But before getting to the wheels, there is one more conversion to take place: the final drive ratio. The secondary shaft/drive shaft spins a primary gear in the final drive, which in turn causes a secondary gear to spin as well. Once again, divide the number of teeth on the primary shaft with the number of teeth on the secondary shaft, and you get the final drive ratio. In the case of the M3, there are 100 teeth on the primary, and 26 teeth on the secondary giving a 3.8462:1 final drive ratio (100/26=3.8462).
Since both of these gears reduce the motor RPM to wheel/hub RPM, they BOTH act as torque multipliers. It's important to understand that BOTH gears act as torque multipliers: the transmission gear ratio AND final drive ratio act as torque multipliers -- not just the transmission gear ratio. It's easy to calculate the combined torque multiplier, as it's simply the gear-ratio x final-drive-ratio. In this case, 1.58 x 3.8462 = 6.084.
To compensate for the torque multiplier, you simply divide the measured results by the torque multiplier to obtain the actual results. In the case of a 3rd gear run on the M3, divide the measured results by 6.084 to obtain the actual results. If you look at the dyno chart, you will see they did exactly that. You will see '6.084' in the bottom right corner of the dyno chart. That was the torque DIVISOR from the measured results. If it weren't there, you'd be seeing over 2400 horsepower from this motor.
The myth:
Regardless of which dyno you use, you are always getting a torque multiplier because whichever gear you choose is always being run through and multiplied by the final drive ratio. The myth states that you need to run as close to 1:1 as possible -- completely ignoring that a final drive ratio even exists. Well the bad news for people who don't think for themselves: a final drive ratio does exist, and always acts as a torque multiplier itself. Eliminating the torque multiplying effects is as simple as dividing the measured results by this value.
So at least for the 20 people reading this thread, I hope you'll now understand how this works...and why it doesn't matter.
Oh, and for those of you still tempted to say that you need to run in 5th gear (1:1), think again. Your speed limiter would kick in before your dyno run is over...and completely invalidate your results.
Regardless of torque and RPM, some value of power exists at the flywheel. The flywheel causes the primary shaft of the transmission to spin. The gear on the primary shaft has some number of teeth on it, and meshes with another gear on the secondary shaft that has a different number of teeth on it. This is how you get a gear ratio: 87 teeth on the primary divided by 55 teeth on the secondary equals a 1.58:1 gear ratio (87/55=1.58). Obviously a 1:1 gear ratio has the same exact number of teeth on the primary and secondary shafts.
The drive shaft is connected to the secondary shaft of the transmission. But before getting to the wheels, there is one more conversion to take place: the final drive ratio. The secondary shaft/drive shaft spins a primary gear in the final drive, which in turn causes a secondary gear to spin as well. Once again, divide the number of teeth on the primary shaft with the number of teeth on the secondary shaft, and you get the final drive ratio. In the case of the M3, there are 100 teeth on the primary, and 26 teeth on the secondary giving a 3.8462:1 final drive ratio (100/26=3.8462).
Since both of these gears reduce the motor RPM to wheel/hub RPM, they BOTH act as torque multipliers. It's important to understand that BOTH gears act as torque multipliers: the transmission gear ratio AND final drive ratio act as torque multipliers -- not just the transmission gear ratio. It's easy to calculate the combined torque multiplier, as it's simply the gear-ratio x final-drive-ratio. In this case, 1.58 x 3.8462 = 6.084.
To compensate for the torque multiplier, you simply divide the measured results by the torque multiplier to obtain the actual results. In the case of a 3rd gear run on the M3, divide the measured results by 6.084 to obtain the actual results. If you look at the dyno chart, you will see they did exactly that. You will see '6.084' in the bottom right corner of the dyno chart. That was the torque DIVISOR from the measured results. If it weren't there, you'd be seeing over 2400 horsepower from this motor.
The myth:
Regardless of which dyno you use, you are always getting a torque multiplier because whichever gear you choose is always being run through and multiplied by the final drive ratio. The myth states that you need to run as close to 1:1 as possible -- completely ignoring that a final drive ratio even exists. Well the bad news for people who don't think for themselves: a final drive ratio does exist, and always acts as a torque multiplier itself. Eliminating the torque multiplying effects is as simple as dividing the measured results by this value.
So at least for the 20 people reading this thread, I hope you'll now understand how this works...and why it doesn't matter.
Oh, and for those of you still tempted to say that you need to run in 5th gear (1:1), think again. Your speed limiter would kick in before your dyno run is over...and completely invalidate your results.
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Im probably gonna try this out if it doesnt need a piggy back.
And if the intake i 100% what its marketed as couldnt the JoeZ intake be modded to be just like the K&N rather simply?
#14
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Could you clarify this please. Are you saying that The K&N needs a piggy back but doesnt add one?
Im probably gonna try this out if it doesnt need a piggy back.
And if the intake i 100% what its marketed as couldnt the JoeZ intake be modded to be just like the K&N rather simply?
Im probably gonna try this out if it doesnt need a piggy back.
And if the intake i 100% what its marketed as couldnt the JoeZ intake be modded to be just like the K&N rather simply?
#15
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Could you clarify this please. Are you saying that The K&N needs a piggy back but doesnt add one?
Im probably gonna try this out if it doesnt need a piggy back.
And if the intake i 100% what its marketed as couldnt the JoeZ intake be modded to be just like the K&N rather simply?
Im probably gonna try this out if it doesnt need a piggy back.
And if the intake i 100% what its marketed as couldnt the JoeZ intake be modded to be just like the K&N rather simply?