The IS-F need a hp jump?
06-03-09, 07:34 AM
#16
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1. Must people do not use these cars to their full potential
2. What 400+ hp luxury car gets the same mpg or better as the ISF
3 There is always something faster and with more hp and maybe even less coin!
4. Just remember the reason you bought an ISF to begin with. For me it was the blend of performance, reliability, uniqueness, service, quality!
What about you?
2. What 400+ hp luxury car gets the same mpg or better as the ISF
3 There is always something faster and with more hp and maybe even less coin!
4. Just remember the reason you bought an ISF to begin with. For me it was the blend of performance, reliability, uniqueness, service, quality!
What about you?
06-03-09, 07:58 AM
#20
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To the OP. Go drive one and then drive the other cars you mentioned and maybe you'd understand.
06-03-09, 10:49 AM
#22
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Well, obviously some ppl here are over sensitive and very easy to get angry.
I never said hp is the only factor to consider a ISF, I just said it would be better that Lexus reacts to the trend more quickly. hp is not everything, but it does mean something. Think about that if the current ISF only have 330hp, do your guys still want a F?
Also, if you citing other supercars that do not have super high hp, the reason behind this is the cost to manufacture and market strategy. It's pity that M3 only put a 4L V8 in it because BMW management decided to use a NA engine, and they decided to put the 5L V10 in the higher M5/6, and they don't have bigger and better engine if M3 use 5L and M5/6 use something >5L.
Yes I know if I come to a specific car forum and say 'hey guys I found that some other brands' product are superior to yours in one specification', the reaction of some ppl will normally be some curse and quarrel. But please do not forget, this defensive way and ignorance are exactly how the big 3 ruin themselves over years.
I never said hp is the only factor to consider a ISF, I just said it would be better that Lexus reacts to the trend more quickly. hp is not everything, but it does mean something. Think about that if the current ISF only have 330hp, do your guys still want a F?
Also, if you citing other supercars that do not have super high hp, the reason behind this is the cost to manufacture and market strategy. It's pity that M3 only put a 4L V8 in it because BMW management decided to use a NA engine, and they decided to put the 5L V10 in the higher M5/6, and they don't have bigger and better engine if M3 use 5L and M5/6 use something >5L.
Yes I know if I come to a specific car forum and say 'hey guys I found that some other brands' product are superior to yours in one specification', the reaction of some ppl will normally be some curse and quarrel. But please do not forget, this defensive way and ignorance are exactly how the big 3 ruin themselves over years.
06-03-09, 12:48 PM
#25
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Well, obviously some ppl here are over sensitive and very easy to get angry.
I never said hp is the only factor to consider a ISF, I just said it would be better that Lexus reacts to the trend more quickly. hp is not everything, but it does mean something. Think about that if the current ISF only have 330hp, do your guys still want a F?
Also, if you citing other supercars that do not have super high hp, the reason behind this is the cost to manufacture and market strategy. It's pity that M3 only put a 4L V8 in it because BMW management decided to use a NA engine, and they decided to put the 5L V10 in the higher M5/6, and they don't have bigger and better engine if M3 use 5L and M5/6 use something >5L.
Yes I know if I come to a specific car forum and say 'hey guys I found that some other brands' product are superior to yours in one specification', the reaction of some ppl will normally be some curse and quarrel. But please do not forget, this defensive way and ignorance are exactly how the big 3 ruin themselves over years.
I never said hp is the only factor to consider a ISF, I just said it would be better that Lexus reacts to the trend more quickly. hp is not everything, but it does mean something. Think about that if the current ISF only have 330hp, do your guys still want a F?
Also, if you citing other supercars that do not have super high hp, the reason behind this is the cost to manufacture and market strategy. It's pity that M3 only put a 4L V8 in it because BMW management decided to use a NA engine, and they decided to put the 5L V10 in the higher M5/6, and they don't have bigger and better engine if M3 use 5L and M5/6 use something >5L.
Yes I know if I come to a specific car forum and say 'hey guys I found that some other brands' product are superior to yours in one specification', the reaction of some ppl will normally be some curse and quarrel. But please do not forget, this defensive way and ignorance are exactly how the big 3 ruin themselves over years.
1.) There is a delicate balance to how the power is put down. Sure, give us a 600hp motor and call it a day. But how does that affect the way the car drives? Can the car maintain the proper balance and driving experience? How much weight does it add to the car? Does it still feel and handle like an IS-F? There is a TT IS-F that can only run 14s because it can't get traction. Most of us would not want that car. The point is that there is so much more to performance than HP, as already mentioned. And THAT's why the F is in a totally different league than a 500hp civic, or a 400hp Camaro, which takes me to the next point:
2.) Yes, Lexus needs to keep up with its competitors, but the Camaro is NOT its competition. Its competition is M3/C63. And last I checked, the F runs pretty darn close to its competition. You are asking Lexus to step up their game because pony cars are rocking 400hp motors? That's like asking us if we cared that there is a 9 second Cobalt SS at the strip. Impressive, yes, competition, no. Now, if you phrased the question by saying that the CTS-V kills the IS-F in every performance category, then we can talk, and it'll be a totally separate discussion on the merits of each car.
Personally, I just hope that Lexus will work on weight and driving dynamics of the F, so it can keep up with the m3 on the track for the next round. And I hope they do it by making it lighter and more agile, and not by putting 600hp in a V12 motor.
06-03-09, 01:42 PM
#27
I'll try to explain this as clearly as possible. Some of the owners seem angry not because they are being defensive, but because you are completely missing the point of this car. I'm sure all of us want more power, that's a given! Otherwise we wouldn't be hunting for intakes and exhausts for cars. So that's not even debatable. But there are two important points that were made which you completely missed:
1.) There is a delicate balance to how the power is put down. Sure, give us a 600hp motor and call it a day. But how does that affect the way the car drives? Can the car maintain the proper balance and driving experience? How much weight does it add to the car? Does it still feel and handle like an IS-F? There is a TT IS-F that can only run 14s because it can't get traction. Most of us would not want that car. The point is that there is so much more to performance than HP, as already mentioned. And THAT's why the F is in a totally different league than a 500hp civic, or a 400hp Camaro, which takes me to the next point:
2.) Yes, Lexus needs to keep up with its competitors, but the Camaro is NOT its competition. Its competition is M3/C63. And last I checked, the F runs pretty darn close to its competition. You are asking Lexus to step up their game because pony cars are rocking 400hp motors? That's like asking us if we cared that there is a 9 second Cobalt SS at the strip. Impressive, yes, competition, no. Now, if you phrased the question by saying that the CTS-V kills the IS-F in every performance category, then we can talk, and it'll be a totally separate discussion on the merits of each car.
Personally, I just hope that Lexus will work on weight and driving dynamics of the F, so it can keep up with the m3 on the track for the next round. And I hope they do it by making it lighter and more agile, and not by putting 600hp in a V12 motor.
1.) There is a delicate balance to how the power is put down. Sure, give us a 600hp motor and call it a day. But how does that affect the way the car drives? Can the car maintain the proper balance and driving experience? How much weight does it add to the car? Does it still feel and handle like an IS-F? There is a TT IS-F that can only run 14s because it can't get traction. Most of us would not want that car. The point is that there is so much more to performance than HP, as already mentioned. And THAT's why the F is in a totally different league than a 500hp civic, or a 400hp Camaro, which takes me to the next point:
2.) Yes, Lexus needs to keep up with its competitors, but the Camaro is NOT its competition. Its competition is M3/C63. And last I checked, the F runs pretty darn close to its competition. You are asking Lexus to step up their game because pony cars are rocking 400hp motors? That's like asking us if we cared that there is a 9 second Cobalt SS at the strip. Impressive, yes, competition, no. Now, if you phrased the question by saying that the CTS-V kills the IS-F in every performance category, then we can talk, and it'll be a totally separate discussion on the merits of each car.
Personally, I just hope that Lexus will work on weight and driving dynamics of the F, so it can keep up with the m3 on the track for the next round. And I hope they do it by making it lighter and more agile, and not by putting 600hp in a V12 motor.
This has been hashed out but the F is not just a 350 with a bigger motor. The chassis, the suspension, the whole dynamics of the car are different. There are a lot of details that justify the functional aspects of the car besides the motor. Even when I had an underpowered IS300 I could still keep up with most high HP cars in the corners. There is only so much functional streetable horsepower that you can put down, and I will never be interested in drag racing. I would love to see anyone that buys a camaro keep up with me on the track or the canyon and have as much comfortable control as I do in the F. For instance, I ran with a bunch of Evo's this past weekend that had the same or more HP as the F. I had no problem keeping on there *** the whole time. The other day I did a drifted u turn one handed with a Latte in the other hand...the car just handles itself almost.
Give me power, the gear I want when I want it and make it seem effortless ...that is why I drive an F.
And BTW, I think this car responds amazingly to weight reduction. Even the difference between the driver solo and one passenger is noticeable at least to me. So think the weight reduction will be more outstanding then just adding HP as the cost of reliability.
That is my vote.
Fig
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Redefining Lexus Aftermarket Parts Since 2001
-- We are your Lexus suspension experts--
BCR - KW - PENSKE - OHLINS - HKS - GREDDY - STANCEPARTS
Links - Arms - SuperPro Poly Bushings - Solid Bearing Conversions - Motor Mounts
RB BBK's and 2P Rotors, G-Loc pads, Radium Fuel Systems
Custom Fabrication Design and Machining - Industrial 3D Printing - Laser Cutting
2018 USTCC Sportsman Class Champions - 2018 NASA ST5 National Champions
06-03-09, 03:49 PM
#28
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Thread Starter
I have stated in the previous posts *three* times that the pony cars are not in the same market with the F. Why still some people are trying to compare the performance among them? When I wrote the first post, I didn't even think about questions like 'who is faster', 'who is more comfortable' or 'who can do the corner better' etc. I just mentioned several key words like 'pony car', 'hp', 'engine', how come your guys extend my original meaning so much to some topics that are totally irrelevant??
Now it seems to me some ppl over react just because what they are trying to dispute is exactly what they fear in their subconsciousness.
OK, to avoid further quarrel, let me change the way to express my opinion:
Suppose we are development/design engineers in Toyota corp, now comes the project from upper management that asking us to start on 2010 year model IS-F, and they have already approved a slight/mid facelift to the product, but need us to specify what things to be changed; so one of the discussion topic in the development plan is to decide what engine should we use in the new product. Of course there are many options, for example: no change and keep the same one, put more fancy stuff in the 5.7L one to make like 450-500hp+, or ask the engine dept. to develop a dedicated new one etc. Under such circumstances, what are your guys' suggestions?
Now it seems to me some ppl over react just because what they are trying to dispute is exactly what they fear in their subconsciousness.
OK, to avoid further quarrel, let me change the way to express my opinion:
Suppose we are development/design engineers in Toyota corp, now comes the project from upper management that asking us to start on 2010 year model IS-F, and they have already approved a slight/mid facelift to the product, but need us to specify what things to be changed; so one of the discussion topic in the development plan is to decide what engine should we use in the new product. Of course there are many options, for example: no change and keep the same one, put more fancy stuff in the 5.7L one to make like 450-500hp+, or ask the engine dept. to develop a dedicated new one etc. Under such circumstances, what are your guys' suggestions?
06-03-09, 05:32 PM
#29
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If you are a true toyota/lexus fan you will realize that they rarely change their engine. Reliability sells for Toyota, thats why they rarely mess with what they have, why do you think the IsF engine is actually a stroked 4.6L from the Ls? cause they know its basically a bulletproof engine with no headache. You really think Toyota cares about adding 10-15hp to their IsF? They dont need to worry about cars like the camaro. It will be different if we were talking about a Supra instead of the IsF. People are reacting the way they are cause you are comparing a very sophisticated car to a no brainer muscle car. Its almost considered like an insult to us, at least its the way I see it, why do you think I keep adding little stuff here and there on this posting, like no navi.... etc..
06-03-09, 06:11 PM
#30
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If you are a true toyota/lexus fan you will realize that they rarely change their engine. Reliability sells for Toyota, thats why they rarely mess with what they have, why do you think the IsF engine is actually a stroked 4.6L from the Ls? cause they know its basically a bulletproof engine with no headache. You really think Toyota cares about adding 10-15hp to their IsF? They dont need to worry about cars like the camaro. It will be different if we were talking about a Supra instead of the IsF. People are reacting the way they are cause you are comparing a very sophisticated car to a no brainer muscle car. Its almost considered like an insult to us, at least its the way I see it, why do you think I keep adding little stuff here and there on this posting, like no navi.... etc..
Like what I have said above, I have mentioned *many many* times, I am not comparing car A with car B. I just talk about the engine. Why I still see claims from someone such as 'you are comparing a very sophisticated car to a no brainer muscle car'?? How many times do I need to repeat this?