Opinion: Why to get an IS-F vs. E92 M3
10-07-09, 12:21 AM
#31
I don't have either car.
However, if I had a choice, I'd go with the Bimmer.
Why?
Well, aesthetics is the first thing. I did not like the IS-F's body kid when it came out, and I'm still struggling to appreciate it. However, the interior of an IS-F beats the M3. A lot more lux but still has a sporty atmosphere. Seats on the M3 are better designed, but the IS-F has more amenities.
Second, you have a choice with sedan, coupe, or convertible. BMW has been doing this for a while, but Lexus needed to tap into this market very carefully. No one knew how well the IS-F would do, nor does anyone know how it will progress in the future with upcoming CAFE standards. Because of Lexus' conservatism, they are one step behind BMW. If I had a choice, I wouldn't want my IS-F nor my M3 to be a sedan. I'd go for a convertible or a coupe.
Third, I believe that the M3 holds its resale value due to its halo image and desirability. I believe the IS-F will lose about $20k of its value in the first year. No matter what, both cars do take a hit, but the M3's cult following gives it this edge.
Both cars are amazing. I will sacrifice some issues with BMW for an M3 if I had the chance. The IS-F has a lot of Pros that outweigh its Cons. However, for what these cars are for (ultimate enthusiasts' toys), the M3 is a better choice.
However, if I had a choice, I'd go with the Bimmer.
Why?
Well, aesthetics is the first thing. I did not like the IS-F's body kid when it came out, and I'm still struggling to appreciate it. However, the interior of an IS-F beats the M3. A lot more lux but still has a sporty atmosphere. Seats on the M3 are better designed, but the IS-F has more amenities.
Second, you have a choice with sedan, coupe, or convertible. BMW has been doing this for a while, but Lexus needed to tap into this market very carefully. No one knew how well the IS-F would do, nor does anyone know how it will progress in the future with upcoming CAFE standards. Because of Lexus' conservatism, they are one step behind BMW. If I had a choice, I wouldn't want my IS-F nor my M3 to be a sedan. I'd go for a convertible or a coupe.
Third, I believe that the M3 holds its resale value due to its halo image and desirability. I believe the IS-F will lose about $20k of its value in the first year. No matter what, both cars do take a hit, but the M3's cult following gives it this edge.
Both cars are amazing. I will sacrifice some issues with BMW for an M3 if I had the chance. The IS-F has a lot of Pros that outweigh its Cons. However, for what these cars are for (ultimate enthusiasts' toys), the M3 is a better choice.
10-07-09, 12:22 AM
#32
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Technik, I do think that the IS F looks better but again as everyone has said it is subjective, and most importantly, it is up to you!
It is what you feel when you push that start button and it is about what you want! At the end of the day, the IS F has brought joy to a lot of us and indeed even those who have bought m6s or m3s after selling their Fs still come back to this forum and mention how much they do miss that '8 speeder' or being on the inside of the car.
So to answer your question: I'd say go with the Obsidian, because it makes he car look menacing + if you decide to use carbon fibre anywhere on the exterior it can be 'masked' too by its colour. The black does seem to look better with the new wheels tbh.
LSD is no longer an issue for all of us as i think its pretty clear that it will get retrofitted one way or another. So now its up to you. The choices are there, both are great great cars ! You'll be lucky and happy to own either!
To sum up, the IS F has grunt, but isn't as track precise as the m3. It has great interior and is comfortable. Furthermore, it works out to be slightly cheaper.
the lack of aftermarket support probably reflects the number of these cars around, they are limited. But don't let that deter you! I personally have already decided that i will buy the next generation IS F when it does come in about 3-4 years.
I love my F. And i am surprised at how in love i am with it, because i was m3 biased.
We can't wait to welcome you techknik if you do make the plunge! lol
It is what you feel when you push that start button and it is about what you want! At the end of the day, the IS F has brought joy to a lot of us and indeed even those who have bought m6s or m3s after selling their Fs still come back to this forum and mention how much they do miss that '8 speeder' or being on the inside of the car.
So to answer your question: I'd say go with the Obsidian, because it makes he car look menacing + if you decide to use carbon fibre anywhere on the exterior it can be 'masked' too by its colour. The black does seem to look better with the new wheels tbh.
LSD is no longer an issue for all of us as i think its pretty clear that it will get retrofitted one way or another. So now its up to you. The choices are there, both are great great cars ! You'll be lucky and happy to own either!
To sum up, the IS F has grunt, but isn't as track precise as the m3. It has great interior and is comfortable. Furthermore, it works out to be slightly cheaper.
the lack of aftermarket support probably reflects the number of these cars around, they are limited. But don't let that deter you! I personally have already decided that i will buy the next generation IS F when it does come in about 3-4 years.
I love my F. And i am surprised at how in love i am with it, because i was m3 biased.
We can't wait to welcome you techknik if you do make the plunge! lol
10-07-09, 01:16 AM
#33
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Phillip made some really good points too.
I think the idea of the F being a 4 door sedan was more of an "Accounts v. Engineers" decision so the compromise had to be made. The fact that the centre console of 08/09' Fs were basically unusable for passengers highlights one of these compromises. one of the designers of the F was a Supra Designer and Pioneer of HP toyotas. I think given the relative success and reception of the F model we can only hope to see an expansion of the Line, not just in the from of the LFA but ISC-ish (coupes) And yes the point that m3 has many body options also show BMWs confidence and expertise in this segment. While i won't go so far as to say the IS F is too far of a step behind, id say it still needs to improve on some aspects.
We also have to bear in mind that the m3 4 door sedan model was only available fairly recently. late 2008/ early 09 if im not mistaken. I know many m3 owners who clearly wanted 4 doors as opposed to 2 doors and didnt get it till now.
Again, body styling is subjective. Much like the 5 series when it first came out i remembered a headline saying "Bangle Bungle 5series" something like, 5 series Banged up (bangled up) before launch. Styling takes time to appreciate. Much like the misguided x6 imo but i still like it for what it is. Brave.
I think the idea of the F being a 4 door sedan was more of an "Accounts v. Engineers" decision so the compromise had to be made. The fact that the centre console of 08/09' Fs were basically unusable for passengers highlights one of these compromises. one of the designers of the F was a Supra Designer and Pioneer of HP toyotas. I think given the relative success and reception of the F model we can only hope to see an expansion of the Line, not just in the from of the LFA but ISC-ish (coupes) And yes the point that m3 has many body options also show BMWs confidence and expertise in this segment. While i won't go so far as to say the IS F is too far of a step behind, id say it still needs to improve on some aspects.
We also have to bear in mind that the m3 4 door sedan model was only available fairly recently. late 2008/ early 09 if im not mistaken. I know many m3 owners who clearly wanted 4 doors as opposed to 2 doors and didnt get it till now.
Again, body styling is subjective. Much like the 5 series when it first came out i remembered a headline saying "Bangle Bungle 5series" something like, 5 series Banged up (bangled up) before launch. Styling takes time to appreciate. Much like the misguided x6 imo but i still like it for what it is. Brave.
10-07-09, 01:55 AM
#34
What can I say... I love my IS-F 
And I can care less about the little aftermarket support, since I plan to keep my car generally stock anyways, but that's just me.
M3 coupe does look sweet. M3 sedan is just... okay. I find when most people say the M3 looks better than the IS-F they're referring to the coupe, which is an unbalanced comparison imo. 2 doors almost always have a aesthetic advantage over 4. Porsche 911's are beautiful, but look how they screwed up the sedan format with the Panamera. Though the AM Rapide and the Lambo Estoque concepts are both very nice for sedans, it would be very difficult for anybody to say either of them looks as good as their 2-door counterparts. The Audi A5 and A4 is another example. (Yes, the IS-C is an exception to this, but in Lexus' defense, that one is basically a retrofitted 2-door design.)
Sedan to sedan, opinions on looks would be a lot more split, and usually what tips the scales would usually come down to brand-specific design language preference.
Oh, and by the way, between Obsidian and 'Graphite' (Smoky Granite Mica): Check out THESE pictures before deciding... (my car.
)
And I can care less about the little aftermarket support, since I plan to keep my car generally stock anyways, but that's just me.
M3 coupe does look sweet. M3 sedan is just... okay. I find when most people say the M3 looks better than the IS-F they're referring to the coupe, which is an unbalanced comparison imo. 2 doors almost always have a aesthetic advantage over 4. Porsche 911's are beautiful, but look how they screwed up the sedan format with the Panamera. Though the AM Rapide and the Lambo Estoque concepts are both very nice for sedans, it would be very difficult for anybody to say either of them looks as good as their 2-door counterparts. The Audi A5 and A4 is another example. (Yes, the IS-C is an exception to this, but in Lexus' defense, that one is basically a retrofitted 2-door design.)
Sedan to sedan, opinions on looks would be a lot more split, and usually what tips the scales would usually come down to brand-specific design language preference.
Oh, and by the way, between Obsidian and 'Graphite' (Smoky Granite Mica): Check out THESE pictures before deciding... (my car.
)
10-07-09, 09:22 AM
#36
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The Canadian market will only be getting 200 or so IS-F's for 2010, now that's exclusivity.
As far as the aftermarket goes I do have to say that there isn't much out but headers (aside from the fact that I heard it can be costly and complicated to do) are a possibility. Just adding a Joe Z intake pipe and an exhaust will bring this car to life (more or less 40whp if I remember correctly) in both performance and sonority.
And as far as I know, for the more or less $20k more you'll be spending on a similarly equipped M3 you can get an Artisan twin-turbo or a Greddy supercharger whenever that comes out and make nearly 600 hp at the wheels.
If you really need cooled seats and a manual transmission then get an M3 but don't expect to be as satisfied with the performance (or how much you can exploit it, really) and comfort.
As far as the aftermarket goes I do have to say that there isn't much out but headers (aside from the fact that I heard it can be costly and complicated to do) are a possibility. Just adding a Joe Z intake pipe and an exhaust will bring this car to life (more or less 40whp if I remember correctly) in both performance and sonority.
And as far as I know, for the more or less $20k more you'll be spending on a similarly equipped M3 you can get an Artisan twin-turbo or a Greddy supercharger whenever that comes out and make nearly 600 hp at the wheels.
If you really need cooled seats and a manual transmission then get an M3 but don't expect to be as satisfied with the performance (or how much you can exploit it, really) and comfort.
10-07-09, 10:59 AM
#37
OP, i think people are putting too much thought into this.
You can't go wrong with either one, or even an RS4, C63 etc... And no one (except a few d-bag fanboys) will be mad at you. And plenty of people will admire any of those cars.
Everyone knows M3 the gold standard but it's a dime a dozen, but all the others have their strengths/weaknesses also like ISF's predicted reliability and bang for the buck, RS4's all wheel drive, etc.
You will know what you want after you drive it, WRITE OUT PROS VS CONS, and then price them out! Unless you're bill gates, money should be a big factor if there is a big price difference (like I said before, comparably equipped my cost difference was around $15,000).
We understand this will be a big purchase but you should remember this:
KISS - keep it simple stupid
You can't go wrong with either one, or even an RS4, C63 etc... And no one (except a few d-bag fanboys) will be mad at you. And plenty of people will admire any of those cars.
Everyone knows M3 the gold standard but it's a dime a dozen, but all the others have their strengths/weaknesses also like ISF's predicted reliability and bang for the buck, RS4's all wheel drive, etc.
You will know what you want after you drive it, WRITE OUT PROS VS CONS, and then price them out! Unless you're bill gates, money should be a big factor if there is a big price difference (like I said before, comparably equipped my cost difference was around $15,000).
We understand this will be a big purchase but you should remember this:
KISS - keep it simple stupid
Last edited by malujerry; 10-07-09 at 11:03 AM.
10-08-09, 06:37 PM
#38
I posted this elsewhere but here was my reasoning:
All started after I sold my e46 m3 and was looking for a logical 4-door Automatic replacement car. I wanted the RS4 but with only a manual that car was out. The new m3 coupe/cabrio is awesome but with the 4-door requirement, the e90 sedan is butt ugly IMO so passed. The C63 AMG was a close 2nd place but with the dismal fuel economy plus I already have a Benz, I wanted to get back into a Lexus for its reliability and awesome service. The Lexus however did not fit ALL my criteria either as it only seated 4 passengers and had a small trunk with no fold down rear seats but it was the closest I can find so this is my compromise and how I got into the Lexus IS-F.
All started after I sold my e46 m3 and was looking for a logical 4-door Automatic replacement car. I wanted the RS4 but with only a manual that car was out. The new m3 coupe/cabrio is awesome but with the 4-door requirement, the e90 sedan is butt ugly IMO so passed. The C63 AMG was a close 2nd place but with the dismal fuel economy plus I already have a Benz, I wanted to get back into a Lexus for its reliability and awesome service. The Lexus however did not fit ALL my criteria either as it only seated 4 passengers and had a small trunk with no fold down rear seats but it was the closest I can find so this is my compromise and how I got into the Lexus IS-F.
10-09-09, 07:32 AM
#39
Lexus Test Driver
For me it came down to the fact that I would not buy another German car based on reliability issues. After being supremely disappointed in my Porsche 911 ownership experience and even longer ago my VW experience I vowed to only buy a Japanese car. So far I have not been disappointed with the Lexus and do not expect to be.
10-09-09, 09:31 PM
#41
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Before I share some of my own thoughts, some background:
I'd wanted an M3 for a loooong time... I've always had and preferred manual transmissions, and almost didn't even drive the F because of it (co-worker convinced me to at least try it). My wife was convinced I was wasting my time test driving these 2 as well as other cars - I was getting an M3. To be fair, I kinda thought she was right when I started looking.
Having owned my F for ~6-7 months now, I love it and would buy it over the BMW all over again.
I could afford the M3, but once I started comparing price, I was actually comparing to a 335 instead of an M3 (the "dream"). The 335 priced out similar to my loaded F and, given the real world difference, starting doubting the ability to justify the extra $$ for the M.
Pouring over forums, I became mildly concerned about reliability of the BMW... No concerns there.
Can't say better gas mileage didn't make it on the pro/con list...
I'll get weird looks for this one
I really like the instrument panel on the F (and didn't particularly like the "harder" interior of the BMW)
In the end, I loved the sound when I hit that start button, and, surprisingly, LOVED the tran. Its awesome. Never thought I'd own an automatic other than my trucks, but this one rules.
I'd wanted an M3 for a loooong time... I've always had and preferred manual transmissions, and almost didn't even drive the F because of it (co-worker convinced me to at least try it). My wife was convinced I was wasting my time test driving these 2 as well as other cars - I was getting an M3. To be fair, I kinda thought she was right when I started looking.
Having owned my F for ~6-7 months now, I love it and would buy it over the BMW all over again.
I could afford the M3, but once I started comparing price, I was actually comparing to a 335 instead of an M3 (the "dream"). The 335 priced out similar to my loaded F and, given the real world difference, starting doubting the ability to justify the extra $$ for the M.
Pouring over forums, I became mildly concerned about reliability of the BMW... No concerns there.
Can't say better gas mileage didn't make it on the pro/con list...
I'll get weird looks for this one
I really like the instrument panel on the F (and didn't particularly like the "harder" interior of the BMW)In the end, I loved the sound when I hit that start button, and, surprisingly, LOVED the tran. Its awesome. Never thought I'd own an automatic other than my trucks, but this one rules.
10-09-09, 09:37 PM
#42
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I disagree... admittedly, I got a great deal on my F, but going by the prices on cars.com, my '08 F has only lost a few $$$... In general I think most would side on Lexus holding resale value better than the BMW...
10-09-09, 11:18 PM
#43
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There were a few things that made me decide for the IS-F over the M3.
1.) No spare tire on M3
2.) No oil dipstick on M3
3.) orange peel paint on M3 - IS-F is mirror polished
4.) better interior design and materials on IS-F
5.) M3 price includes gas guzzler tax penalty
6.) M3 is an actual gas guzzler
7.) higher governed top speed for IS-F
M3 is a great car I would be happy to own. I spent more time looking, driving, researching BMW. But the IS-F is the one that won me over, its refined dual personality luxury/performance.
1.) No spare tire on M3
2.) No oil dipstick on M3
3.) orange peel paint on M3 - IS-F is mirror polished
4.) better interior design and materials on IS-F
5.) M3 price includes gas guzzler tax penalty
6.) M3 is an actual gas guzzler
7.) higher governed top speed for IS-F
M3 is a great car I would be happy to own. I spent more time looking, driving, researching BMW. But the IS-F is the one that won me over, its refined dual personality luxury/performance.
Last edited by Reciprocal; 10-09-09 at 11:25 PM.
10-10-09, 11:41 AM
#44
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I'll be honest, I was debating over an M3 before I picked up the F. Honestly, the M3 has some kind of "bling" to it, its a car that every manufacture is trying to compete, compare with, its a car that everyone says "wow" to. I know the F gets that response too. But anyway, the M3 was a pretty good deal if you really think about it, you can probably pick one up for around $60 relatively equipped. I picked my F up for $50k. Yeah, its $10k difference but heres how I see it, Bmw has the Maintenance package included so thats a Plus, Hey, $200 oil changes adds up and out of the 4yr 50k, you get a good 4 oil changes, brake pads, rotors, etc.... and another factor was APR, Bmw was running that 0.9% apr on their 3 series and that adds up super fast, especially when your F is at 5.9% apr. So, overall, price is not too far apart, factoring all these things in. What made me but the F was RELIABILITY!!! I know Lexus are Bulletproof. BMW= Bring More Worries!!! lol And Im glad I made the right choice, My buddies brand new 335 wouldnt start the 2nd day with 120 miles on his car because of a bad fuel pump, turbo and fuel pump blew again at 7100 miles and now at 12k his car is 2.5 quarts of oil low. Sigh and my only complaints for the F is Why does it cost $800 for a front lip for this car? lol
10-10-09, 12:00 PM
#45
in the end, it is the driver who gets to justify his or her purchase. IMO the IS F is a far superior car. not only does it provide the luxurious amenities that cannot be matched by any competitor, including BMW, it also features some real life scenarios that people will come across in their daily lives. a member mentioned the dipstick and spare tire, though relatively unnoticed, is big to have handy when the time comes. also, the M3 comes with that gas guzzler. not only are you paying for the car, you're paying for the gas, and now you're paying for a tax on top of the car and gas for the sole reason that it gets pretty bad mileage. the m3 has been a staple for higher performance vehicles, but there are so many on the road that it loses it exclusivity. id have to disagree with the member that said the bmw brand has that "halo" effect. theres nothing glorious about driving an m3- its all too common here and practically anywhere urban. though the IS F comes in four doors, it tailors to those who want luxury, safety, and hospitality. it just seems like an inconvenience to move those driver and passenger seats to allow guests to sit in the back seats. and finally, as many of the members here I'm sure have noticed, the lexus fan base tends to be less of an arrogant and immature group compared to those of the BMW's. in my experience you see all the M3's who "want a piece of the F", but what that does is have them needing to prove they are top dog. hardly any F driver has to be the instigator, and that shows the class (or in this case, lack of class) of many M3 drivers/ draggers. this isnt a situation for ALL M3's, but reading the cases here on the CL forum, it is quite applicable to many F drivers' experiences.
all in all, each person has the right to choose which car they want. personally, when i see the M3, all i see is problems and breakdowns, even under warranty. as for the drivers themselves, they are more arrogant, immature, and very self-centered. but this is why i chose the IS F. it exudes the prestige and reputation that lexus so greatly created and maintained over the past two decades. in my opinion...the IS F hands down crushes the M3, and any bimmer who wishes to counteract probably will cuz they think they're hot stuff (when they're really not).
all in all, each person has the right to choose which car they want. personally, when i see the M3, all i see is problems and breakdowns, even under warranty. as for the drivers themselves, they are more arrogant, immature, and very self-centered. but this is why i chose the IS F. it exudes the prestige and reputation that lexus so greatly created and maintained over the past two decades. in my opinion...the IS F hands down crushes the M3, and any bimmer who wishes to counteract probably will cuz they think they're hot stuff (when they're really not).