Opinion: Why to get an IS-F vs. E92 M3
06-25-11, 08:09 AM
#106
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OK...you all make a good case for Lexus & IS-F over a M3...you have me thinking seriously about "jumping ship", so to speak, as I am a dyed-in-the-wool German car FAN...LOVE 'em, everything about them (well almost, not the inflated $$$)...but hey, not many cars are worth what the company is aksing...Lexus included. For me, (and apparently, many others)...nothing under 100k handles like a Porsche...and BMW has long had this "magical" balance (literal 50/50, as far as weight in 3 series) ...between performance & comfort / utility with a steering "feel" second to NONE!
I have been driving a E46 3 series and LOVE it, have had NO problems up to 62k miles and would, in the near future get a E9x M3 ( but maybe wait to see what the next gen 3 has to offer???).
However, after reading THIS thread, with for the most part, very fair "treatment" of the M3 & BMW when compared to the IS-F...I have doubts?
You see, I have saved enough to comfortably buy outright (cash) either car...
however, I plan to baby the car, enjoy it YES, for sure, DRIVE 'em but not "track" the car, or beat it up. Long term ownership on a fixed income (retired)...
...so maintainence & repairs long-term is a BIG factor for me.
I hear/read about these horror stories about BMWs after warranty but it is ONLY people who have had issues that voice them on car forums...you do not hear from the bazillion that have had good experiences as I have had with my 3 series.
Also, Consumer guide ranked the E9x M3 as the #1 "sporty" car for RELIABILITY" ...with NO mention of the IS-F or ANY Lexus on the short list?
So....???
Help
My parents swore to themselves to never buy a BMW after their expieriences. They always looked passed the small glitchy issues, but after this key issue, they're done. That's why I got an F over an M3.
06-25-11, 08:56 AM
#107
Okay, well this was a huge debate for me as well when I went to Purchase my 2011 F. IMO, you buy a BMW for show and for pride, and you buy a Lexus for reliability, and pride. My parents have had bimmers for a very long time. (All 7 series) Every 7 series that my parents have owned has always been incredibly glitchy. The nav won't work, windows, air conditioner, just little stupid small stuff. (don't get me wrong, they were all fixed my BMW, but why were all of these things happening in the first place?) With their 750 now, they're key never opens the car. The vehicle has been through a series of tests, replacing parts, replacing keys, and they can't figure it out. It's been 3 months! (Thats almost a $2000/month)
My parents swore to themselves to never buy a BMW after their expieriences. They always looked passed the small glitchy issues, but after this key issue, they're done. That's why I got an F over an M3.
My parents swore to themselves to never buy a BMW after their expieriences. They always looked passed the small glitchy issues, but after this key issue, they're done. That's why I got an F over an M3.
06-25-11, 11:24 AM
#108
Reliability is properly judged when a car is new and 150,000 miles later. There is really no way for me, as much I want to be able to, conclude that the M3 is a more reliable car than the ISF specifically and that BMW is more reliable than Toyota/Lexus generally.
Hands down and without a shadow of a doubt Toyota/Lexus rules in the quality/reliability department overall.
06-25-11, 02:38 PM
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I did check up on that a couple of months ago and what I found out was it ranked specifically the 2010 M3 manual as above average in reliability. When you go check the ratings for the 2008 and 2009, they are very average. So what it seems to me is that it only ranked a specific model year as above average. If the same model for other years have significantly different ratings which are essentially the same car, then that tells me that result is skewed.
Reliability is properly judged when a car is new and 150,000 miles later. There is really no way for me, as much I want to be able to, conclude that the M3 is a more reliable car than the ISF specifically and that BMW is more reliable than Toyota/Lexus generally.
Hands down and without a shadow of a doubt Toyota/Lexus rules in the quality/reliability department overall.
Reliability is properly judged when a car is new and 150,000 miles later. There is really no way for me, as much I want to be able to, conclude that the M3 is a more reliable car than the ISF specifically and that BMW is more reliable than Toyota/Lexus generally.
Hands down and without a shadow of a doubt Toyota/Lexus rules in the quality/reliability department overall.
I guess I will go test drive the "F" again, had a short one couple of months ago...and I noticed perplexing "LAG" , when stepping on the throttle...hesitation, strange for a non-turbo NA???
Was not sure if it was a crappy transmission or the engine, but walked away very unimpressed with the IS-F. It was a 2010 or 2011, brand new and had to beg the Lexus Dealer here in Vegas, for the test drive.
Never had to beg Desert BMW for a test drive in ANY car, almost as if the Lexus dealer thinks that the car is so special it should not be test driven... that I should just BUY it just 'cause it is a "LEXUS" , uh NO !
I have test driven 100k+ BMW's Porsches, Jags and Corvettes, NO PROBLEM.
Hope LEXUS will let me take it more than a couple of miles this time...?
HOW do they expect anyone to buy a car one cannot experience???
Bizarre?
06-25-11, 03:03 PM
#111
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16n69: In regards to the lag you're experiencing: When you go test drive, locate the toggle below the steering wheel and to the right, and make sure you turn on sports mode. That will up the steering feel and throttle sensitivity. The default settings are geared more towards cruising and comfort.
06-25-11, 03:08 PM
#112
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I'll give it ONE more try...with the kind of HP & torque the "F" boasts, it should thrill...just like the M3 never fails to
06-25-11, 03:24 PM
#113
Oh...gosh, not surprising the TWO sales peeps could not figure it...one chick in the backseat was along for the drive for "training" purpose..lol, the blind leading the blind...but I ALWAYS know more about the cars than the sales person in ANY dealership anywhere...seems the way it is, not many know about the product they sell. Sad, actually
I'll give it ONE more try...with the kind of HP & torque the "F" boasts, it should thrill...just like the M3 never fails to
I'll give it ONE more try...with the kind of HP & torque the "F" boasts, it should thrill...just like the M3 never fails to
The F is a BEAST in sport mode so you should enjoy it as do I!!!
06-25-11, 04:39 PM
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...and maybe I can impress the sales guy with "sport mode" and show them where it is...lol.
Do these engines ( in the F)...being it is a V8, have a similar beefy guttural growl that the BMW's have...even thier inline 6's have great sounds...
...most Japanese cars I have drove, like Nissan 370 Z or Infiniti G37's have engines that sound like coffee grinders...lol
06-25-11, 06:19 PM
#116
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Go see Jim at Lexus of Las Vegas. Tell him Irfan sent you to him. He sold me my F, he's the sales manager. Great guy to deal with and will never judge you from the start. At the Lexus dealership in Henderson, no one wanted to talk to me. As soon as I felt a little judgement coming my way, I pretty said F you guys!
Sounds like a reasonable answer ...I will have to look into this a bit more before I decide, I do not know what it is about BMW, something INTANGIBLE, hard to put a finger on it...for me (and many others...)...hard to break away, even with little nagging problems, their engines and drivetrain are rock solid, especially the NA engines like the N52 and S65...I have had nothing but good luck with mine.
I guess I will go test drive the "F" again, had a short one couple of months ago...and I noticed perplexing "LAG" , when stepping on the throttle...hesitation, strange for a non-turbo NA???
Was not sure if it was a crappy transmission or the engine, but walked away very unimpressed with the IS-F. It was a 2010 or 2011, brand new and had to beg the Lexus Dealer here in Vegas, for the test drive.
Never had to beg Desert BMW for a test drive in ANY car, almost as if the Lexus dealer thinks that the car is so special it should not be test driven... that I should just BUY it just 'cause it is a "LEXUS" , uh NO !
I have test driven 100k+ BMW's Porsches, Jags and Corvettes, NO PROBLEM.
Hope LEXUS will let me take it more than a couple of miles this time...?
HOW do they expect anyone to buy a car one cannot experience???
Bizarre?
I guess I will go test drive the "F" again, had a short one couple of months ago...and I noticed perplexing "LAG" , when stepping on the throttle...hesitation, strange for a non-turbo NA???
Was not sure if it was a crappy transmission or the engine, but walked away very unimpressed with the IS-F. It was a 2010 or 2011, brand new and had to beg the Lexus Dealer here in Vegas, for the test drive.
Never had to beg Desert BMW for a test drive in ANY car, almost as if the Lexus dealer thinks that the car is so special it should not be test driven... that I should just BUY it just 'cause it is a "LEXUS" , uh NO !
I have test driven 100k+ BMW's Porsches, Jags and Corvettes, NO PROBLEM.
Hope LEXUS will let me take it more than a couple of miles this time...?
HOW do they expect anyone to buy a car one cannot experience???
Bizarre?
06-25-11, 10:42 PM
#117
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Go see Jim at Lexus of Las Vegas. Tell him Irfan sent you to him. He sold me my F, he's the sales manager. Great guy to deal with and will never judge you from the start. At the Lexus dealership in Henderson, no one wanted to talk to me. As soon as I felt a little judgement coming my way, I pretty said F you guys!
I know what you mean about Henderson ...I do not know what gives with the "AutoMall" dealerships..had trouble at BMW there, took an act of God to drive an M3 there...but Lexus ofLas Vegas was not much better when I went last?
but I will try again.
Wish CarMax had both a IS-F & M3 in stock so I coud drive them back 2 back.
06-25-11, 11:12 PM
#118
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Look, I would rather take a F over a M3 but something that Lexus cant compete with is BMW's DCT. When I drove my friend's M3 sedan w/ the dct it was amazing. He let me use the l/c and it shifts lightning fast. At the time it had around 20,000 miles on it.
06-26-11, 08:10 AM
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For me, what it comes down to RELIABILITY ...as I plan to keep it a long time ( if I love a car, I do not get sick of it, rather, like to tweak & customize it )
THE QUESTION is (or what I really need to determine, before I dump my beloved Bimmers)...is Lexus REALLY that much MORE reliable than BMW?
Here is a LINK...to an interesting site, a U.K. warranty co. that has collected data over decades,to determine the top 100 most reliable cars...OVER TIME, NOT just for the 1st 4 yrs. or so under warrenty, as a "new car".
http://www.gizmag.com/the-100-most-r...in-order/5657/
...and;
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/
Here is an excerpt from the sites "intro":
..."But when we saw what UK company automotive warranty company was up to, we know you'll agree that it's worth a mention. As a privately owned insurance intermediary, the firm collects lots of data about warranty issues – something you'll never find out from the only other people who have access to the information (the manufacturers). In a very clever move, it has taken this secondary data and produced a reliability index – an independent comparison of frequency of failure across the 55,000 vehicles it insures. Read on for a list of the 100 most reliable used cars over the past decade. And before you take a peek, have a guess at where the best Japanese, German, Swedish, British, Korean and French-built cars will rank. You won't even come close!..."
Last edited by 16n69; 06-26-11 at 08:14 AM.