Let me get this straight...enlighten me.
03-02-10, 05:16 PM
#16
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Sports car? Neither the M3 or the IS-F are sports cars. Your argument makes no sense. 6MTs are where the synchro dogs grind and the clutch needs replacement.
I don't buy cars because I want to massage my ego and impress my friends with three pedals. I buy them because they do what I want/need. If you're dead set on grinding gears and burning up clutches, rock on. It's dinosaur technology I first learned on a Model 8N in the barnyard when I was 6 - 44 years ago...
I don't buy cars because I want to massage my ego and impress my friends with three pedals. I buy them because they do what I want/need. If you're dead set on grinding gears and burning up clutches, rock on. It's dinosaur technology I first learned on a Model 8N in the barnyard when I was 6 - 44 years ago...
03-02-10, 05:21 PM
#17
M3 is great car and all i'm saying is if you buy m3 and when they start to break down and ur out of warranty its going to cost you quite a bit to maintain the vehicle.
another option is u can buy the car and never drive it hard.... that way it wont break
03-02-10, 05:27 PM
#18
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Thread Starter
My point exactly
my e46 m3 had some issues with tranny before 40k miles on it (SMG)... and it had to sent back to dealer couple of times to get issues solved... as soon as 50k passes i've had more problems everymonth... it was one of main reasons that i sold the car..
M3 is great car and all i'm saying is if you buy m3 and when they start to break down and ur out of warranty its going to cost you quite a bit to maintain the vehicle.
another option is u can buy the car and never drive it hard.... that way it wont break
M3 is great car and all i'm saying is if you buy m3 and when they start to break down and ur out of warranty its going to cost you quite a bit to maintain the vehicle.
another option is u can buy the car and never drive it hard.... that way it wont break
airlaird
03-02-10, 05:28 PM
#19
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Who said I want to impress my friends or my ego? Picking a 6MT is MY CHOICE. I had an IS and I sold it because it was just boring to drive. I gave it a chance and now I HAVE to have a 6MT. I am an car enthusiast and I enjoy shifting the gears, rev matching, etc, etc. I do not want some computer doing everything for me. I want to do it. Maybe when I am 50 yes when my knees start to go out. I am not bashing the IS-F, if it were a manual I would probably have one today. Grinding gears, burning clutches, where did you get that from? My last car I sold at 160k miles with original clutch. Not a single problem with it.
What I hear you say every time you insist on a "manual" is you're a three pedal snob. It's funny to me because no serious racing vehicle still has a human operated clutch in it any more.
03-02-10, 06:36 PM
#21
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I was quoted $280.00......for a oil change. Good God Almighty...what..they have to take out the engine...perhaps put the car on a rotisserie and drain it...or does it just take 20 Qts??
HOW is this justified? I think the only answer is "It's a BMW" Oh...and FYI, an oil change on an IS-F?.......$150.00
airlaird
HOW is this justified? I think the only answer is "It's a BMW" Oh...and FYI, an oil change on an IS-F?.......$150.00
airlaird
03-02-10, 07:06 PM
#23
Pole Position
I have had automatics and I have had 5MTs but I have never had anything like my ISF's 8 speed (paddle shifting) automatic. What I like about it is that I can put it in manual when on the track or on the street and I have complete control of when it shifts, both up and down. Entering a corner at 140-145 mph on the track you can hit the brake and start downshifting into 50 mph corner, then as you unwind you can upshift as you head down the next straight.
When I am on the freeway I have two choices, manual shifting or when I just want to relax I can place it in auto and cruise along.
I think that my ISF gives me the best of both worlds.
Pat
When I am on the freeway I have two choices, manual shifting or when I just want to relax I can place it in auto and cruise along.
I think that my ISF gives me the best of both worlds.
Pat
03-02-10, 07:10 PM
#24
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The SMG on the V10 M cars are not perfect and I can empathize with owners who hate them, but it isn't as bad as it seems.....at least not as bad as the press make it out to be. I know, I've lived with it for over 50K km. You get used to it.
Obviously, if you set the throttle response to its quickest setting and try to drive it in stop-and-go traffic then you'll be miserable (and a masochist). And, if somehow you decide try to drive it in auto mode then you'll be even more miserable.
The M3 was never an option for me because you can't drive the V8 after you've driven the V10. You just can't. Likely, if I had gotten the M3 every time I drove it I'll constantly compare it to the M5. Plus, 3 of my neighbors already drive an M3.
Don't get me wrong, I think M cars will always be great, but if I had gotten an M3, in a way it would just be same old...same old.
The IS-F is something unique --- a fresh-faced Japanese interpretation of the hardcore sports sedan. It is relatively unknown and rare, and that's a large part of its appeal.
Obviously, if you set the throttle response to its quickest setting and try to drive it in stop-and-go traffic then you'll be miserable (and a masochist). And, if somehow you decide try to drive it in auto mode then you'll be even more miserable.
The M3 was never an option for me because you can't drive the V8 after you've driven the V10. You just can't. Likely, if I had gotten the M3 every time I drove it I'll constantly compare it to the M5. Plus, 3 of my neighbors already drive an M3.
Don't get me wrong, I think M cars will always be great, but if I had gotten an M3, in a way it would just be same old...same old.
The IS-F is something unique --- a fresh-faced Japanese interpretation of the hardcore sports sedan. It is relatively unknown and rare, and that's a large part of its appeal.
03-02-10, 07:52 PM
#25
As many comparisons that have been done by magazines, I personally feel that they are two totally different cars. The ISF is my daily driver. After a hard day of work when you want a relaxing drive, the ISF gives it to you. The shifts are smooth and the car is quiet (though the shocks could use better rebound). The fit and finish (specially the leather seats) and reliability is amazing. When you want to drive aggressively, simply switch to manual for neck snapping shifts and torque galore.
The M3 is the weekend car when you want to have fun. The handling in the M3 is hands down better. Overall, it is a better driver's car I think.
Both great cars. Any true unbiased car enthusiast can see the merits (and demerits) in each car. On the ISF, I have the metallic engine sound and uneven tire wear in the the front. Nothing so far on the M3 (now that I have jinxed myself). My track car was an E46 M3 that I drove the **** out of with 60k miles. Only thing I had to replace were the front and rear bushings, and the rear view mirror. I also had an E36 M3 for three years with 40k miles. That was a trooper as well. Not a single issue when I sold it.
The M3 is the weekend car when you want to have fun. The handling in the M3 is hands down better. Overall, it is a better driver's car I think.
Both great cars. Any true unbiased car enthusiast can see the merits (and demerits) in each car. On the ISF, I have the metallic engine sound and uneven tire wear in the the front. Nothing so far on the M3 (now that I have jinxed myself). My track car was an E46 M3 that I drove the **** out of with 60k miles. Only thing I had to replace were the front and rear bushings, and the rear view mirror. I also had an E36 M3 for three years with 40k miles. That was a trooper as well. Not a single issue when I sold it.
03-02-10, 07:54 PM
#26
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Thread Starter
airlaird
03-02-10, 09:35 PM
#27
manual > paddle shift auto's??!?!?
yeah, and math on fingers > calculator.
drive the F, it's NOT the soft-10-second-delay transmissions in other cars... even the regular IS's. again it's like comparing the little calculator on windows 95 to the TI-89.
yeah, and math on fingers > calculator.
drive the F, it's NOT the soft-10-second-delay transmissions in other cars... even the regular IS's. again it's like comparing the little calculator on windows 95 to the TI-89.
Last edited by malujerry; 03-02-10 at 09:39 PM.
03-02-10, 11:55 PM
#28
Lexus Champion
I was in the same situation as you are. I debated between M3 and IS-F many times. I truly think both are great cars. Unfortunately, there's no such thing as a perfect car. Both of them have their pros and cons.
They both weigh pretty close, M at 3704 lbs and the F at 3780 lbs. I have friends who own M3s with zero issues and some who are not as fortunate. However, it seems like the amount of owners who have issues is far more than their counterparts.
Stock versus stock, the handling and the driving dynamics on the M is better than the F. I like the fact that M offers manual gear box, which I wish was an option in the F. I might not shift as fast or precise as the Direct Shift transmission that F offers, but it is a blast to drive a manual. For a 5.0L V8, the torque on the M is barely noticeable. Fortunately, F has abundance which makes the drive a little more fun.
Another downfall with the M, in my opinion, is the interior. Besides the feel of steering wheel, it seems to be lackluster at best compared to what F offers. Also keep in mind that you have to pay $2K to get extended leather configured into the M.
Finally, I looked into maintenance. BMW offers 4 years/ 50,000 miles, which is nice. However, major tune ups won't be covered since all of those will take place after the warranty expires. Since I decided to purchase the car, I went with the F. If I were to lease one, then it'll be a different story.
Good luck with your purchase.
Terrance
They both weigh pretty close, M at 3704 lbs and the F at 3780 lbs. I have friends who own M3s with zero issues and some who are not as fortunate. However, it seems like the amount of owners who have issues is far more than their counterparts.
Stock versus stock, the handling and the driving dynamics on the M is better than the F. I like the fact that M offers manual gear box, which I wish was an option in the F. I might not shift as fast or precise as the Direct Shift transmission that F offers, but it is a blast to drive a manual. For a 5.0L V8, the torque on the M is barely noticeable. Fortunately, F has abundance which makes the drive a little more fun.
Another downfall with the M, in my opinion, is the interior. Besides the feel of steering wheel, it seems to be lackluster at best compared to what F offers. Also keep in mind that you have to pay $2K to get extended leather configured into the M.
Finally, I looked into maintenance. BMW offers 4 years/ 50,000 miles, which is nice. However, major tune ups won't be covered since all of those will take place after the warranty expires. Since I decided to purchase the car, I went with the F. If I were to lease one, then it'll be a different story.
Good luck with your purchase.
Terrance
Like many others, I of course also considered the M3 and almost picked one up in addition to my F. Unfortunately, the wife decided a second SUV "made sense"...how lame...lol.
To be honest, the C63 was actually my first choice when shopping back in 2008. Unfortunately, MB couldn't get anywhere in the ballpark of what I needed for delivery (ie. +5 month wait). With the minor issues that we've had with our ML I'm not all that heartbroken...lol.
I personally didn't like the appearance of the 2008 M3 sedan, couldn't justify the additional $15K price tag for the better handling, disliked the interior and the ridiculously bad tech, and wasn't willing to roll the dice on the reliability of the DCT (which I would have picked as my wife can't drive a manual).
Yup Lots of Us were in your current situation. For me it came down to to reliability,speed on the streets and... looks
Reliability- Well you've read about what most Lexus drivers already know about BMW
Speed on the streets- The ISF is Much Much Much faster than the M3 from any roll their is.
Oh and Looks- I really liked the looks of the M3 coupe. But the coupe makes no sense to me. So for someone in my situation, the debate was between the ISF and the 4 door M3.
Reliability- Well you've read about what most Lexus drivers already know about BMW
Speed on the streets- The ISF is Much Much Much faster than the M3 from any roll their is.
Oh and Looks- I really liked the looks of the M3 coupe. But the coupe makes no sense to me. So for someone in my situation, the debate was between the ISF and the 4 door M3.
I'd go as far to say that I LOVE the looks of the M3 coupe but can't stand the sedan. I really need to quit letting the wife help decide on vehicles. I compromised with the sedan...but really wanted a coupe.
My picks for sedan in order were: C63, IS F and M3.
My picks for a coupe were: GT R, Z06 and M3.
I'm actually thinking about purchasing an 2011 M3. I will most likely buy a bare bones M3 which makes it even more reliable. No navigation or EDC the adjustable suspension. I also keep my vehicles 7+ years. except my last is250, it was just boring to drive. No personality what so ever with that car so I had to sell it. I think the M3 makes an excellent choice.
BMW has a tendency to test their new tech on their customers without fully developing it before release. Ask my father his thoughts....his first gen X5 was in the shop 20 times in 18 months....lol.
I too looked at the manual M3 very hard (and at the time there were deals to be had) but 1) I was looking for a long-term daily driver and 2) as a previous BMW owner I knew exactly how much "love and attention" (read: repair time and $$$) it takes to keep one on the road to 100,000 miles and beyond. And there's NO excuse for the M's lousy mileage, even considering it's a high-winder. So no contest, really.
I still prefer the looks of the M3 coupe over the F but frankly I get so many stares with the Lexus it's unnerving.
I still prefer the looks of the M3 coupe over the F but frankly I get so many stares with the Lexus it's unnerving.
Sports car? Neither the M3 or the IS-F are sports cars. Your argument makes no sense. 6MTs are where the synchro dogs grind and the clutch needs replacement.
I don't buy cars because I want to massage my ego and impress my friends with three pedals. I buy them because they do what I want/need. If you're dead set on grinding gears and burning up clutches, rock on. It's dinosaur technology I first learned on a Model 8N in the barnyard when I was 6 - 44 years ago...
I don't buy cars because I want to massage my ego and impress my friends with three pedals. I buy them because they do what I want/need. If you're dead set on grinding gears and burning up clutches, rock on. It's dinosaur technology I first learned on a Model 8N in the barnyard when I was 6 - 44 years ago...
These cars are luxury cars with some nice performance.
03-03-10, 05:56 AM
#29
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Lobux, You need to remember that being an enthusiast dosnt necessarily mean that you want to win 
Exactly why I say that the M3 Coupe makes no sense.
I'd go as far to say that I LOVE the looks of the M3 coupe but can't stand the sedan. I really need to quit letting the wife help decide on vehicles. I compromised with the sedan...but really wanted a coupe.
My picks for sedan in order were: C63, IS F and M3.
My picks for a coupe were: GT R, Z06 and M3.
The F is a manual better than any other manual I've owned or driven. Your perception is "I have to have a clutch" or its not a manual. You don't have to have a clutch. A human operated clutch is a dinosaur. Humans suck at operating clutches. Computers do it far better. It doesn't rob you of anything and actually lets you focus on what's really important - course, heading, and traction. Anything else is just a distraction.
What I hear you say every time you insist on a "manual" is you're a three pedal snob. It's funny to me because no serious racing vehicle still has a human operated clutch in it any more.
What I hear you say every time you insist on a "manual" is you're a three pedal snob. It's funny to me because no serious racing vehicle still has a human operated clutch in it any more.
I'd go as far to say that I LOVE the looks of the M3 coupe but can't stand the sedan. I really need to quit letting the wife help decide on vehicles. I compromised with the sedan...but really wanted a coupe.
My picks for sedan in order were: C63, IS F and M3.
My picks for a coupe were: GT R, Z06 and M3.