Need help with those familiar with both IS-F and E92 M3.
03-06-10, 05:57 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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Here is what I posted in the tread you couldn't open:
As some of you know I sold my 2008 IS-F and replaced it with a 2010 E90 (sedan) M3 with the M-DCT transmission. I got through the 1200 mile break-in about 3 weeks ago, so now I can better compare the two cars.
There are a few things I find myself missing from my F. I really liked having front parking sensors and the backup camera, neither of which you can get on the US spec M3. I used them most of the time to position my car perfectly in the garage so it was as far away from my wife's car as possible. Those of you with young kids understand the need for this. I also miss seeing proper multi-piston fixed caliper brakes peeking through the BBS wheels. While the M3 brakes are fine for the street they are still not fitting for a focused performance car in my opinion.
There are some things the M has that I feel the IS-F is lacking. The biggest is EDC (Electronic Damping Control). It works pretty well on the M and makes for a more comfortable car on crappy roads. The other thing I really like is the programmable M button. Think of this button as the sport button on the F, but the user can choose which settings the car reverts to when the button is pushed. In my car the M button is set up to do the following: M-DCT goes to manual mode with level 5 programming (this is the fastest shift program allowed with stability control activated), throttle response is set to sport, the steering is set to sport, stability control switches to MDM ( M Dynamic Mode) and the suspension goes from comfort to normal. Also, the M button is on the steering wheel instead of hidden behind it on the dash like on the F. Another thing is the seats in the M have an adjustable thigh support that I really like. Being over 6' tall I often find cars to have seat cushions that are too short and this feature takes care of that problem. One last small thing that I prefer on the M is the shift lights. I think this is a better solution than the audible notification the F gives as you near redline.
Now the important part. Which one drives better? Well, it depends on what you are looking for. The F is flat out better at squirting around town in traffic. It feels faster off the line and the engine is more responsive at lower revs. The added torque makes all the difference here. The F also does a better job of impersonating a normal commuter car when you want it to. By this I mean the transmission is smoother in auto mode and the cabin is a more relaxing place to be (unless you are in the back seat which is tighter than the M). The only thing that really hurts the F is the stiff suspension that can make the car a bit unsettled on rough roads. I'm not one who thinks the F's suspension is abusive, but compared to the M it could be better. Basically, at 6/10ths I prefer the way the F drove.
The M3 shins when you start pushing. The 4.0L V8 that feels a bit weak at lower revs turns into a totally different animal between 5000 and the 8400 rpm redline. When revved the M engine feels a bit more special and focused than the F's wonderful power plant.
The M-DCT also comes into its own when the pace picks up. While not as good at being an auto as the F's 8 speed, the M-DCT trumps the F in manual mode. Both upshifts and downshifts feel faster and more direct. Also, rev matching occurs almost instantly on downshifts.
The biggest advantage the M3 has is in chassis dynamics. It is obvious that the folks at M division have a bit more experience in this area. The M communicates what is going on at the wheels better than the F. The steering and chassis have a more direct and unfiltered feeling. This allows me to push the car harder because I have plenty of notice before things get out of shape. Also, the BMW has more front end grip which makes for more neutral handling through the corners. The impressive part is the M is able to do all this while riding better than the F.
I think it is obvious that I like both cars. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. If the F had a little more back seat room and slightly softer suspension I would say it is the better daily driver unless your commute includes a lot of curves and little traffic. If I owned a dedicated sports car I think that the F would probably be my choice as a second car. Since I don't, I feel like the M3 is a better compromise since it does a better job a playing sports car when the roads and traffic allow. The good news is that the F was Lexus' first attempt at car like this. Considering how much I enjoyed the F, I can't wait to see what the future holds.
One final thing I will touch on is value. Here I think the IS-F wins hands down. If I had speced out my M3 to match all the features I had on my F it would have had a sticker price north of $70k. By leaving off the sunroof and premium audio I saved $3k, but still ended up with an M3 that was almost $5k more than my F if comparing sticker to sticker. When you factor in the fact that I got 2 to 3 mpg better out of my F it is obvious the Lexus is easier on the wallet. The only real advantage the BMW has is that maintenance is included for the first 40k miles.
As some of you know I sold my 2008 IS-F and replaced it with a 2010 E90 (sedan) M3 with the M-DCT transmission. I got through the 1200 mile break-in about 3 weeks ago, so now I can better compare the two cars.
There are a few things I find myself missing from my F. I really liked having front parking sensors and the backup camera, neither of which you can get on the US spec M3. I used them most of the time to position my car perfectly in the garage so it was as far away from my wife's car as possible. Those of you with young kids understand the need for this. I also miss seeing proper multi-piston fixed caliper brakes peeking through the BBS wheels. While the M3 brakes are fine for the street they are still not fitting for a focused performance car in my opinion.
There are some things the M has that I feel the IS-F is lacking. The biggest is EDC (Electronic Damping Control). It works pretty well on the M and makes for a more comfortable car on crappy roads. The other thing I really like is the programmable M button. Think of this button as the sport button on the F, but the user can choose which settings the car reverts to when the button is pushed. In my car the M button is set up to do the following: M-DCT goes to manual mode with level 5 programming (this is the fastest shift program allowed with stability control activated), throttle response is set to sport, the steering is set to sport, stability control switches to MDM ( M Dynamic Mode) and the suspension goes from comfort to normal. Also, the M button is on the steering wheel instead of hidden behind it on the dash like on the F. Another thing is the seats in the M have an adjustable thigh support that I really like. Being over 6' tall I often find cars to have seat cushions that are too short and this feature takes care of that problem. One last small thing that I prefer on the M is the shift lights. I think this is a better solution than the audible notification the F gives as you near redline.
Now the important part. Which one drives better? Well, it depends on what you are looking for. The F is flat out better at squirting around town in traffic. It feels faster off the line and the engine is more responsive at lower revs. The added torque makes all the difference here. The F also does a better job of impersonating a normal commuter car when you want it to. By this I mean the transmission is smoother in auto mode and the cabin is a more relaxing place to be (unless you are in the back seat which is tighter than the M). The only thing that really hurts the F is the stiff suspension that can make the car a bit unsettled on rough roads. I'm not one who thinks the F's suspension is abusive, but compared to the M it could be better. Basically, at 6/10ths I prefer the way the F drove.
The M3 shins when you start pushing. The 4.0L V8 that feels a bit weak at lower revs turns into a totally different animal between 5000 and the 8400 rpm redline. When revved the M engine feels a bit more special and focused than the F's wonderful power plant.
The M-DCT also comes into its own when the pace picks up. While not as good at being an auto as the F's 8 speed, the M-DCT trumps the F in manual mode. Both upshifts and downshifts feel faster and more direct. Also, rev matching occurs almost instantly on downshifts.
The biggest advantage the M3 has is in chassis dynamics. It is obvious that the folks at M division have a bit more experience in this area. The M communicates what is going on at the wheels better than the F. The steering and chassis have a more direct and unfiltered feeling. This allows me to push the car harder because I have plenty of notice before things get out of shape. Also, the BMW has more front end grip which makes for more neutral handling through the corners. The impressive part is the M is able to do all this while riding better than the F.
I think it is obvious that I like both cars. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. If the F had a little more back seat room and slightly softer suspension I would say it is the better daily driver unless your commute includes a lot of curves and little traffic. If I owned a dedicated sports car I think that the F would probably be my choice as a second car. Since I don't, I feel like the M3 is a better compromise since it does a better job a playing sports car when the roads and traffic allow. The good news is that the F was Lexus' first attempt at car like this. Considering how much I enjoyed the F, I can't wait to see what the future holds.
One final thing I will touch on is value. Here I think the IS-F wins hands down. If I had speced out my M3 to match all the features I had on my F it would have had a sticker price north of $70k. By leaving off the sunroof and premium audio I saved $3k, but still ended up with an M3 that was almost $5k more than my F if comparing sticker to sticker. When you factor in the fact that I got 2 to 3 mpg better out of my F it is obvious the Lexus is easier on the wallet. The only real advantage the BMW has is that maintenance is included for the first 40k miles.
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