M3
06-15-10, 12:09 PM
#46
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06-15-10, 12:51 PM
#47
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1. 8 speeds cant feel right from the start, it was unheard of until this car, u need to get use to it
2.i believe that percentage is much lower, I always see people with f's at the track and of course ur gtr is better, the cars are in different leagues
id like a gtr one day too, a r8 as well lol
3.i thought u just meant the sound at 3600 not the power, which i seem to find when needed
i think both cars have the ups and downs, id take a m3, but only second to the f as im sure u know
i like the torque of the f and the interior is comfy just because the m3 can handle a tad/smiggen better around corners is not enough for me
too many m3s on the road now as it is, not as many newer ones tho in my area, that may be for a reason, probably the reliability after warranty exp
just my opinion
2.i believe that percentage is much lower, I always see people with f's at the track and of course ur gtr is better, the cars are in different leagues
id like a gtr one day too, a r8 as well lol
3.i thought u just meant the sound at 3600 not the power, which i seem to find when needed
i think both cars have the ups and downs, id take a m3, but only second to the f as im sure u know
i like the torque of the f and the interior is comfy just because the m3 can handle a tad/smiggen better around corners is not enough for me
too many m3s on the road now as it is, not as many newer ones tho in my area, that may be for a reason, probably the reliability after warranty exp
just my opinion
2.Lets get real now. There is not that many ISF's being track driven. I for one dont take mine to the track. It is more of a DD than a track weapon and most owners dont want to mess up their cars either. Maybe its just the region where I live but I dont see any on the track here or in ATL. I also dont see that many threads concerning track setups and tips.
I would never compare the ISF to the GTR. Not a fare comparison. People always ask me how the two compare and I say they dont.
3.Yes I was talking about the power down low not the sound. Lexus tuned this car to be mostly driven on the street and I guess putting more power lower in the RPM range would just light the tires up. I just wish there was more tq lower in the rpm range.
Yes both the M3 and ISF have their ups and downs but the M3 racing wise on a track with turns is a better weapon. I see where your coming from also and it seems you like the ISF more because either you have never experienced a M3 or because you dislike the BMW crowd and their attitude which is understanding. Also because there is to many on the road and you dont want to blend in like everyone else(I got it). I honestly dont like the way the M3 looks. I dont like how BMW rapes you on every option making a M3 list for 75k compared to the 62k a ISF list for.
People who think the trans in the ISF is awesome have never driven a car with a true DCT. The ISF would have been better with a manual 6sp than what it has now. The Trans in the ISF is no different than a regular automatic trans. A true DCT really is awesome in a car with this much power and when you shift it would lose no power. If you think the car shifts fast the way it is now then with a DCT it would be even faster. I think the DCT trans is going to be the way most manufacturers are going to go.
LOL anyway thats my rant and again I love my ISF but I am not blind to other cars that may possibly be equal or better than it.
06-15-10, 01:15 PM
#48
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Another argument was made that F owners don't track their cars. Actually there are a few on this board. And how many M owners track theirs? And a subtle shot at F owners for modding their cars to look good? Gee, there is this pricey Vorsteiner front lip that I heard is selling pretty well on the M3? I'm sure that lip does wonders for track times.
06-15-10, 01:15 PM
#49
i will have to agree with kickhard. the dct shifts far far better than the 8 speed on isf. way faster and more precise (on both upshift and downshift imho).
for the throttle, could be me but i find the opening of the 2nd intake makes the car harder to drive. kind of feel like vtec kicking in. i very much prefer a more linear throttle, that makes adjustments easier
for the throttle, could be me but i find the opening of the 2nd intake makes the car harder to drive. kind of feel like vtec kicking in. i very much prefer a more linear throttle, that makes adjustments easier
06-15-10, 01:36 PM
#51
1.The 8 speed trans was in the LS before it was put in the ISF I think(I could be wrong). My main problem with it is it takes forever to downshift. There is quite a bit of delay downshifting.
2.Lets get real now. There is not that many ISF's being track driven. I for one dont take mine to the track. It is more of a DD than a track weapon and most owners dont want to mess up their cars either. Maybe its just the region where I live but I dont see any on the track here or in ATL. I also dont see that many threads concerning track setups and tips.
I would never compare the ISF to the GTR. Not a fare comparison. People always ask me how the two compare and I say they dont.
3.Yes I was talking about the power down low not the sound. Lexus tuned this car to be mostly driven on the street and I guess putting more power lower in the RPM range would just light the tires up. I just wish there was more tq lower in the rpm range.
Yes both the M3 and ISF have their ups and downs but the M3 racing wise on a track with turns is a better weapon. I see where your coming from also and it seems you like the ISF more because either you have never experienced a M3 or because you dislike the BMW crowd and their attitude which is understanding. Also because there is to many on the road and you dont want to blend in like everyone else(I got it). I honestly dont like the way the M3 looks. I dont like how BMW rapes you on every option making a M3 list for 75k compared to the 62k a ISF list for.
People who think the trans in the ISF is awesome have never driven a car with a true DCT. The ISF would have been better with a manual 6sp than what it has now. The Trans in the ISF is no different than a regular automatic trans. A true DCT really is awesome in a car with this much power and when you shift it would lose no power. If you think the car shifts fast the way it is now then with a DCT it would be even faster. I think the DCT trans is going to be the way most manufacturers are going to go.
LOL anyway thats my rant and again I love my ISF but I am not blind to other cars that may possibly be equal or better than it.
2.Lets get real now. There is not that many ISF's being track driven. I for one dont take mine to the track. It is more of a DD than a track weapon and most owners dont want to mess up their cars either. Maybe its just the region where I live but I dont see any on the track here or in ATL. I also dont see that many threads concerning track setups and tips.
I would never compare the ISF to the GTR. Not a fare comparison. People always ask me how the two compare and I say they dont.
3.Yes I was talking about the power down low not the sound. Lexus tuned this car to be mostly driven on the street and I guess putting more power lower in the RPM range would just light the tires up. I just wish there was more tq lower in the rpm range.
Yes both the M3 and ISF have their ups and downs but the M3 racing wise on a track with turns is a better weapon. I see where your coming from also and it seems you like the ISF more because either you have never experienced a M3 or because you dislike the BMW crowd and their attitude which is understanding. Also because there is to many on the road and you dont want to blend in like everyone else(I got it). I honestly dont like the way the M3 looks. I dont like how BMW rapes you on every option making a M3 list for 75k compared to the 62k a ISF list for.
People who think the trans in the ISF is awesome have never driven a car with a true DCT. The ISF would have been better with a manual 6sp than what it has now. The Trans in the ISF is no different than a regular automatic trans. A true DCT really is awesome in a car with this much power and when you shift it would lose no power. If you think the car shifts fast the way it is now then with a DCT it would be even faster. I think the DCT trans is going to be the way most manufacturers are going to go.
LOL anyway thats my rant and again I love my ISF but I am not blind to other cars that may possibly be equal or better than it.
1.The LS trans is an 8 speed but until the LS460 Sport you could not paddle shift it and it still isn't programmed to shift like the IS F.
2.The ratio of IS F's being sold to M3's is a LOT less so it stands to reason that the number of M3's on the track would be more. However the % of owners of both cars that bought them and use them on the track is about the same. All of the E90 M3 fanbois like to wax poetically about BMW's racing heritage but seldom take it to the track. E36 and E46 M3 owners are more likely to take their car on track. So for as much of a better track car the M3 is it's more likely to be sitting at lights and going to the supermarket than carving apexes.
I've driven numerous cars with DCT transmissions (Audi, GTR, M3, Evo X) to name a few. Some work better than others and yes on a true track car it is the better alternative. But as discussed the people in the market for M3's, IS F's and C63 aren't really buying these to go to a track. Some of the DCT's work reallly good on a track but don't perform as well in day to day stop and go situations where smoothness is sought after. The IS F's automatic is a good compromise between the 2.
You are correct the M/T industry is a dying one as far as OEM's are concerned but dual clutch transmissions still leave a lot to be desired in low speed operations which is what 95% of the owners of these cars spend their time in. This is coming from someone that's worked in this specific market and seen it up close up for 4 years until August last year.
06-15-10, 02:14 PM
#52
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I'll start off by saying that I like the M3 and It'll probably be my next car or maybe the C63 (although I hate the cheap interior plastic they use even on the new E class).
1.The LS trans is an 8 speed but until the LS460 Sport you could not paddle shift it and it still isn't programmed to shift like the IS F.
2.The ratio of IS F's being sold to M3's is a LOT less so it stands to reason that the number of M3's on the track would be more. However the % of owners of both cars that bought them and use them on the track is about the same. All of the E90 M3 fanbois like to wax poetically about BMW's racing heritage but seldom take it to the track. E36 and E46 M3 owners are more likely to take their car on track. So for as much of a better track car the M3 is it's more likely to be sitting at lights and going to the supermarket than carving apexes.
I've driven numerous cars with DCT transmissions (Audi, GTR, M3, Evo X) to name a few. Some work better than others and yes on a true track car it is the better alternative. But as discussed the people in the market for M3's, IS F's and C63 aren't really buying these to go to a track. Some of the DCT's work reallly good on a track but don't perform as well in day to day stop and go situations where smoothness is sought after. The IS F's automatic is a good compromise between the 2.
You are correct the M/T industry is a dying one as far as OEM's are concerned but dual clutch transmissions still leave a lot to be desired in low speed operations which is what 95% of the owners of these cars spend their time in. This is coming from someone that's worked in this specific market and seen it up close up for 4 years until August last year.
1.The LS trans is an 8 speed but until the LS460 Sport you could not paddle shift it and it still isn't programmed to shift like the IS F.
2.The ratio of IS F's being sold to M3's is a LOT less so it stands to reason that the number of M3's on the track would be more. However the % of owners of both cars that bought them and use them on the track is about the same. All of the E90 M3 fanbois like to wax poetically about BMW's racing heritage but seldom take it to the track. E36 and E46 M3 owners are more likely to take their car on track. So for as much of a better track car the M3 is it's more likely to be sitting at lights and going to the supermarket than carving apexes.
I've driven numerous cars with DCT transmissions (Audi, GTR, M3, Evo X) to name a few. Some work better than others and yes on a true track car it is the better alternative. But as discussed the people in the market for M3's, IS F's and C63 aren't really buying these to go to a track. Some of the DCT's work reallly good on a track but don't perform as well in day to day stop and go situations where smoothness is sought after. The IS F's automatic is a good compromise between the 2.
You are correct the M/T industry is a dying one as far as OEM's are concerned but dual clutch transmissions still leave a lot to be desired in low speed operations which is what 95% of the owners of these cars spend their time in. This is coming from someone that's worked in this specific market and seen it up close up for 4 years until August last year.
The point about the Trans being the same as the LS is that for some reason hahahaf thought the 8 speed trans was specifically made for the ISF when it was an item already used in the Lexus fleet just programmed differently for the ISF
Buy a C63 used and beware of rear tire wear.
Last edited by kickhard; 06-15-10 at 02:18 PM.
06-15-10, 03:18 PM
#53
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I am very confident that more M owners track their cars than ISF owners. If there are a few ISF owners that track then great, I just havent seen any talk about it. And lets be honest how many real performance mods are available for the ISF? Very few. Most modifications done to the ISF are cosmetic(wheels, lowering the car mostly for looks etc...). We don't even have a ecu mod. Which sucks. I bought the wrong car if I want to mod it LOL.
06-15-10, 04:07 PM
#54
I agree with ya on every point.:thumbup
The point about the Trans being the same as the LS is that for some reason hahahaf thought the 8 speed trans was specifically made for the ISF when it was an item already used in the Lexus fleet just programmed differently for the ISF
Buy a C63 used and beware of rear tire wear.
The point about the Trans being the same as the LS is that for some reason hahahaf thought the 8 speed trans was specifically made for the ISF when it was an item already used in the Lexus fleet just programmed differently for the ISF
Buy a C63 used and beware of rear tire wear.
im not sure about the ls
and im not saying that the dct isnt better in some models
im just saying the f has some of the quickest shifts around
and finding and using the right gear for power takes some getting use to
and i dont find it nearly as bad as reviewers or this thread make it out to be
on a side note
we should just tell this guy to spend a bit more money and get a gtr lol
06-15-10, 05:08 PM
#55
Lexus Champion
I'd be surprised if anyone here didn't look at or consider the M3 prior to getting their F (along with the C63). We all knew what we were getting into and made choices that were best for us as individuals.
It's not an issue of one car being "better" than the other. I respect the M3 but didn't want one.
P.S. As to the DCT discussion...there are stickys on the M3 boards discussing the multitude of problems they encounter (yes, Henry...I know they have gotten better
....but have not gone away). Not an ongoing issue that I would want to deal with. 
06-15-10, 06:13 PM
#57
I got the IS-F because...
-it was my first performance car
-no gas guzzler tax
-first performance oriented Lexus
-try something new instead of Audi, BMW, Mercedes, etc...
-better overall package with standard features
-good fuel mileage due to the 8 speed gearing
-came out first before the current m3, c63
-have a few Lexus cars (with no problems) at home so reliability also a factor
-it was my first performance car
-no gas guzzler tax
-first performance oriented Lexus
-try something new instead of Audi, BMW, Mercedes, etc...
-better overall package with standard features
-good fuel mileage due to the 8 speed gearing
-came out first before the current m3, c63
-have a few Lexus cars (with no problems) at home so reliability also a factor
06-15-10, 06:23 PM
#58
+1
I'd be surprised if anyone here didn't look at or consider the M3 prior to getting their F (along with the C63). We all knew what we were getting into and made choices that were best for us as individuals.
It's not an issue of one car being "better" than the other. I respect the M3 but didn't want one.
I'd be surprised if anyone here didn't look at or consider the M3 prior to getting their F (along with the C63). We all knew what we were getting into and made choices that were best for us as individuals.
It's not an issue of one car being "better" than the other. I respect the M3 but didn't want one.
If I was going to do it again, I'd do the exact same thing. Pick the F over the M3 and the C63.
